The dreaded flier

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by wvcountryboy, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. wvcountryboy

    wvcountryboy Well-Known Member

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    What causes the flier? I am shooting a 338 ultra mag. 30" lilja barrel with a 12 twist. I have a pretty good load worked up. 250 match kings 90grain 7828 215 primers and .005 off the lands. Every one on here uses the moa for their groups, I always measure the widest point and subtract one bullet dia. Anyhow, for example; the other day I shot a 5 shot group that was a .193. It shoots great but it took me 6 shots to get that group because i had a flier. It dropped shot #4 1/2". What causes a flier? I am confident in my gun and confident in myself but if the round i fire at a deer at 600 yards is the one that would shoot 1/2" low at 100 yards, i'd miss the deer.
     
  2. wvcountryboy

    wvcountryboy Well-Known Member

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    Also, i am shooting 3150-3165 fps.
     

  3. Loner

    Loner Well-Known Member

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    1/2" at 600 is 3". You won't miss the deer.
     
  4. Augustus

    Augustus Well-Known Member

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    My good man. I would not consider #4 as a flier. I would describe it as the fourth shot in a very tight six shot group.
     
  5. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    good question. I would also like to know the answer to this question. could someone enlighten us?
     
  6. Kiwi Nate

    Kiwi Nate Well-Known Member

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    Ok, a .5" group isn't that big of a group. I have been shooting out to 1130 yards with my half inch load lately. I blogged it all on video and even though its the same old prattle from me, I recommend you watch it:
    YouTube - Ballisticstudies's Channel

    There will always be a number of variables that may cause fliers. I would like to suggest only one variable out of the many- please consider it carefully. You are shooting a magnum powered cartridge and as such, your shooting technique has a huge effect on group potential. Human error is the first thing that needs to be removed from the equation. Again, I talk about my own troubles with this in the above video clip. I went into great detail in this article:
    Hold that Forend!

    The slightest inconsistencies or mis-understood techniques will produce the results you are experiencing. I am not saying this 'is' the cause of your fliers. Its just one variable that has to be removed and something we all need to monitor, all of the time. Once that is out of the way, you can concentrate on other variables such as barrel heat/ steel stresses, pinch points in the bedding, fouling and bore condition, bullet to bore concentricity, extreme velocity spreads.

    If I had to make a guess (which is all I can do without testing the rifle), based on the work I do with client rifles on a week to week basis, if a sub quarter inch rifle produces small fliers of 1 in 6, it will be you, not the rifle. Just bare in mind, its only a guess/assumption. I am pretty confident though.....

    Hope that helps give you a starting point,
    Nathan.
     
  7. wvcountryboy

    wvcountryboy Well-Known Member

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    Well, I appreciate your help. I do make a lot of errors but in this case i dont think its me. My gun weighs 18lbs. It has a flat bottom stock. I do not put any pressure on the stock with my cheek, just barely touch it. I have a 1.5 ounce jewel trigger. my barrel is 30" long 1.450 tapered to 1". I would wait approximately 1 minute between shots so the barrel didnt get hot which i dont think it was that since it was shot 4. Its not just a one time thing, i have fliers from time to time. Usually atleast one out of 10.
     
  8. Kiwi Nate

    Kiwi Nate Well-Known Member

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    I didn't make any references to cheek weld in the article. Please read the article in its entirety, try things, then report back. Only reason I am pushing this is because its a major issue I see on a week to week basis with both new and highly experienced clients. Trouble is, everyone overlooks it and instead, tinker with loads. Before you know it, the barrel is half worn from 100 yard work and the shooting technique has gotten worse not better. Don't mean to get down on you, just want you to not overlook this.
     
  9. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought but are you length sorting the SMK, as close as you are to the lands if you get a long one it may through it of. I've seen quite a bit of sorting the SMK to maximize consistency from shot to shot.
     
  10. wvcountryboy

    wvcountryboy Well-Known Member

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    No, i do not. I measure off the ogive with a comparator. I guess I should measure length. My dad has a junkey (spelling?) bullet spinner but he doesnt want to take it out of the box. He wants to sell it one day as new I guess. I just wonder if it would catch some of the fliers.
     
  11. wvcountryboy

    wvcountryboy Well-Known Member

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    If someone could tell me how to post a picture on here i can put a pic of the particular group i'm talking about.