Stop loading large batches of ammunition

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex, do you ever seat a bullet deeper from the pet load to see how it will perform as the throat wears ? What do you feel is the biggest factor in change, for example temperature ? Thanks for your insight.

My normal routine is to maintain distance to the lands, so if the throat moves .001, I move the seating depth .001" and I adjust powder to stay in tune. That is until that doesnt work then you may need to re test seating depth. Barrels can change preference for seating depth at some point in their life.

 

[25WSM]

Nothing worse than a picky gun. I think that's why so many guys are shooting the 300wsm. Real easy to tune and a very wide node.
Shep

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The WSM is a good one. But my experience on "picky" guns are the wrong component combos. Find the right powder, primer, bullet, and seating depth and all of a sudden they are not too picky. Early barrel life should be used picking that combo, no fine tuning yet...

 

[Reemty J]

Alex, again, thank you...you have no idea how many of us you are helping with your experienced knowledge.
I enjoy reading your threads..

 

[User4302021]

If you can be happy with a load that sits .050" off the lands, and makes 3/4moa for a couple thousand rounds day in and day out... then you can load as many as you want.

 

[FURMAN]

Great post Alex. For some reason some refuse to believe this. I have never seen this not be the case. Some barrels/cartridges are just easier than others but they all need it. My newest 30 Nosler is at around 350 rounds and I have had to move the 215 out .024" and up the charge of H1000 by .8 grains to stay in the middle of its node.

 

[25WSM]

I couldn't be happy with 3/4 moa. I'm not happy with 1/4 moa. To win at 1000 yard matches you need real dang good. Pretty much everybody has capable rifles but the guy that keeps his tune perfect usually wins alot.
Shep

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Long range hunting means something different to everyone. Im really looking for 1/4 moa to give me some room for error

 

[adam32]

Long range hunting means something different to everyone. Im really looking for 1/4 moa to give me some room for error

Most hunters aren't capable of consistently shooting 1/4 moa so they would be chasing their tail trying to find their "tune". ..

 

[25WSM]

I actually think more guys can shoot 1/4 moa than you think. Their rifle may not be able to but they can. I have had so many guys shoot my shop guns and with very little coaching they are shooting clover leafs. Knowing how to tune for accuracy is a major part of getting the gun to shoot. I do believe guys chase their tails but it's not because they can't shoot it's because they don't know how to tune. I can get most rifles shooting 1/2 moa with 20 shots unless there is something wrong with it. I do it all the time. I don't have time to play around doing group after group to find a load. I use a tuning system sort of like Alex does. Heck it might be just like he does. It's not rocket science listen to the gun it will tell you what it likes the whole way.
Shep

 

[LVJ76]

You make a great point Alex.

Shooting silhouette competition for the monthly match we'll reload about 80 rounds, when we have a 2 day match we'll usually load about 150 rounds. 40 for each match, plus sight in and practice. Learned from my dad that every 400 to 500 rounds to check loads again to make sure they still group quarter MOA or less at 100m and up to 500m.

For hunting usually will take 20 rounds to the field and about 30 to 40 for each trip to the range. On the hunting rifles I check my loads every year. A quick kill on an animal counts way more than a hit on a metal silhouette.

 

[SteelBanger]

I actually think more guys can shoot 1/4 moa than you think. Their rifle may not be able to but they can. I have had so many guys shoot my shop guns and with very little coaching they are shooting clover leafs. Knowing how to tune for accuracy is a major part of getting the gun to shoot. I do believe guys chase their tails but it's not because they can't shoot it's because they don't know how to tune. I can get most rifles shooting 1/2 moa with 20 shots unless there is something wrong with it. I do it all the time. I don't have time to play around doing group after group to find a load. I use a tuning system sort of like Alex does. Heck it might be just like he does. It's not rocket science listen to the gun it will tell you what it likes the whole way.
Shep

Are you using the saterlee ladder method? I just tried this method for the first time with a few different bullets this past weekend and found a good node with each bullet. Trying to find the time to get back to the bench and load a couple groups within that node to further refine it.

 

[tylerw02]

I guess all the PRS dudes shooting 250 rounds in a single match and maybe 20 in tune-up the day before are shooting sub-optimal loads. It's a wonder anybody wins.

Back when I was hot and heavy in it, I loaded 300 at a time. It would get me through one big match and one local match. My last match barrel, a .260 Rem was running the same COAL and charge at 1700 rounds. The last match I shot was an F-Class match with it which I won with the last few rounds from a 300 round batch. The last chronographing of the rifle yielded 25 FPS slowed than when the load was settled on...and still within the node. The last group fired from the rifle was a screamer group shot in front of 5 students in a precision rifle class. I also shot a paper KYL and started on the 0.25" dot and center-punched it.

I prefer to spend my time shooting and not chasing loads. When you develop a load, do it with a temp stable powder, use a jump tolerant bullet, find the biggest/widest node possible (not necessarily the fastest or the 0.125 MOA node), and anneal your brass every firing and you'll be fine.

 

[crazyhorse]

I can attest to not loading large batches. The guy I shoot with shows up with 200+ loaded rounds each time we shoot and inevitably always leaves with about 1/2 of it unfired. The next time we go he spends the first 30 minutes cussing and chasing the data that worked last time with the same ammo. It seems to show up when ranges exceed 600yds (300WM and 215 Berger).

Ill also say that I learned to listen to Alex when I tried his 100yd tuning method and in one range session I fixed a problem Id been chasing for weeks on a 7RM. To shoot out to 1200yds I have to travel a couple of hours but have a 100yd range 5 minutes from the house. I was experiencing good accuracy but wild ES swings and knew that I needed to reduce the ES before getting out to distance. After trying his method (the one recommended if you can only shoot 100yds) I now have a load with the same great accuracy and single digit ES!