Stock action vs blueprinted vs custom ?

[sable tireur]

Greyfox,

I just received my Rem 700 barreled action back from Bartlien a couple of months ago.

That's a great job performed by an outstanding supplier! But the shooter has to take a bow also because you still have to drive an accurate rifle, accurately. Congratulations!

Regards.

 

[rcoody]

I just received my Rem 700 barreled action back from Bartlien a couple of months ago. A minty 70's vintage long action had a new 26" Sendaro/Varmint taper barrel installed was chambered in 6.5x284, trued, oversize recoil lug installed, and was matt finished for a total of $800. It was completed in less then 3 months and the workmanship was excellent, Aftet a short break in and minimal load development I have ended up with consistent .25MOA or better performance cold or warm, has held its zero and precision for at least 60 rounds, and cleans easily. It is mated to an A3 McMillan stock, Huber 2 stage 2.5# trigger, Huskemaw 5x20 scope.
While I'd call this a .25MOA rifle, 200 yard groups like this have been very frequent.

I did the same with a 1973 700 action that had been in the gun cabinet 40 years. Trued the action and installed a bartlien #3 barrel. Put it in a McMillian edge stock. Very pleased. Took 6 months.

 

[Edd]

There is some fudging going on in the comparisons. If you want a custom action, buy it. If you are satisfied with a Remington 700, use one of them. But if you are going to make a comparison, make an accurate one.

The first thing that needs to be done is to establish a definition of "blueprint the action".

Enlarge and true the scope base mounting holes.
True the tenon threads, receiver face, and lugs.
Ream the bolt raceway.
Drill the front of the receiver for a pinned lug.
Open the feed port for an extended magazine.
Install bushings on the bolt body.
Install a firing pin bushing in the bolt face.
Replace firing pin and spring.
True the bolt lugs.
Weld the bolt handle to the bolt body.
Flute the bolt.
Install an M-16 extractor.

Which of these are you going to include in your definition of "Blueprint"? Which ones will need to be done to make the 700 action comparable to the action you are comparing it to? How much will each one of these things cost?

Don't fail to include the cost of scope mounting bases and a recoil lug if comparing to an action that has those items integral.

 

[bigngreen]

There is some fudging going on in the comparisons. If you want a custom action, buy it. If you are satisfied with a Remington 700, use one of them. But if you are going to make a comparison, make an accurate one.

The first thing that needs to be done is to establish a definition of "blueprint the action".

Enlarge and true the scope base mounting holes.
True the tenon threads, receiver face, and lugs.
Ream the bolt raceway.
Drill the front of the receiver for a pinned lug.
Open the feed port for an extended magazine.
Install bushings on the bolt body.
Install a firing pin bushing in the bolt face.
Replace firing pin and spring.
True the bolt lugs.
Weld the bolt handle to the bolt body.
Flute the bolt.
Install an M-16 extractor.

Which of these are you going to include in your definition of "Blueprint"? Which ones will need to be done to make the 700 action comparable to the action you are comparing it to? How much will each one of these things cost?

Don't fail to include the cost of scope mounting bases and a recoil lug if comparing to an action that has those items integral.

We need a "Like" button!! To this I would add timing the ignition if you want it to compare to a Borden or Peirce action with a neutral hand of.

 

[J E Custom]

There is some fudging going on in the comparisons. If you want a custom action, buy it. If you are satisfied with a Remington 700, use one of them. But if you are going to make a comparison, make an accurate one.

The first thing that needs to be done is to establish a definition of "blueprint the action".

Enlarge and true the scope base mounting holes.
True the tenon threads, receiver face, and lugs.
Ream the bolt raceway.
Drill the front of the receiver for a pinned lug.
Open the feed port for an extended magazine.
Install bushings on the bolt body.
Install a firing pin bushing in the bolt face.
Replace firing pin and spring.
True the bolt lugs.
Weld the bolt handle to the bolt body.
Flute the bolt.
Install an M-16 extractor.



I agree 100% but that goes both ways. When I did "my" comparison I used a custom clone that was almost identical to the 700 Remington and came up with a $600.00 difference.

If you buy a Remington with some of the extras found on Custom actions it will coat more.

Blue printing involves Truing the tenon threads, facing the receiver face square to the bore, squaring and lapping the recoil lugs, and squaring the bolt face to the bolt centerline.

Any other modifications are strictly optional and don't have anything to do with bringing the action in
to accurate tolerances.

I sometimes do some of the other modifications for my rifles you mentioned simply because I wanted to not because I had to. Many of them I have never "had" to do. interestingly enough
I have never had a problem with the Remington extractor because I don't load over max loads and keep the extractor and chamber clean and working properly. I don't load so hard that I have to hammer the bolt open because it can break not only "any" extractor but also the bolt handle and the case head can be separated from the rest of the case. IT"S JUST A BAD IDEA ALL ROUND.

I also don't like lengthening the ejection port because it weakens the action and if I need a longer port I get a longer action. There are many other things that aren't necessary to blue print an action
and have nothing to do with the process they are just options that a person may want.

PS: if I wanted to do everything on your list, I would simply buy a Custom action and spend the money. I just don't want someone that can't spend money they don't have and possibly not build an accurate rifle when for very little they can get into a very accurate rifle without all the unnecessary frills foe much less.

I am not arguing for or against custom actions just for the comparison of the two in cost and performance. At the range or hunting Its not the action that impresses most but the little round hole in the paper or the perfect hit that counts and normally settles the argument.

Just saying.

J E CUSTOM

 

[rcoody]

Will bluprinted or custom or stock shoot better? I can't answer that. some guns just shoot better than others. you can find that stock shooter but your odds get better the more custom it gets. Those tenths of an inch better sure do start to get expensive though. How accurate do you really need. Many of us chase accuracy we don't need.

Most important thing. Which one will make you feel better. I know we all have plenty of guns that can do the job.

 

[Pdvdh]

How accurate do you really need. Many of us chase accuracy we don't need.

Most important thing. Which one will make you feel better. I know we all have plenty of guns that can do the job.

The accuracy available to large game hunters today really does beg the question of how good is good enough.

I transitioned from fighting to eek out the best accuracy I can get from my rifles, to being completely satisfied at 0.5 to 0.7 moa for my hunting needs, over the past 4 years. That's accuracy that's 1/2 to 1/3 the poorer accuracy that was commonly experienced from factory rifles when I started shooting and reloading in the late 60s early 70s. Some hunters may need 0.4moa. Some might need 0.25moa if they have lots of opportunity for shots some distance past 1000yds. Or if they simply enjoy shooting rocks at extreme ranges.

I enjoy hunting more than I do fighting a load/rifle to get a group down from 0.6 moa to 0.5 moa. Especially with the 30 and 338 magnums I commonly hunt with.

Once I reach acceptable accuracy for my hunting needs, I am way more interested in consistent and reliable point of impacts. I despise a rifle that has to be re-zeroed very often, when I test POI prior to to heading out on a hunt.

 

[Mikecr]

Once I reach acceptable accuracy for my hunting needs, I am way more interested in consistent and reliable point of impacts.

This is what ACCURACY is.
It's not grouping. It's not the group pictured earlier(which was not very accurate).
It's carrying a gun into the field in hunting trim, and hitting a mark with one shot.
Or, hitting that 200yd dot -with one shot.
Try it folks. No matter how well it groups, test it's actual accuracy.

 

[Wachsmann]

I just received my Rem 700 barreled action back from Bartlien a couple of months ago. A minty 70's vintage long action had a new 26" Sendaro/Varmint taper barrel installed was chambered in 6.5x284, trued, oversize recoil lug installed, and was matt finished for a total of $800. It was completed in less then 3 months and the workmanship was excellent, Aftet a short break in and minimal load development I have ended up with consistent .25MOA or better performance cold or warm, has held its zero and precision for at least 60 rounds, and cleans easily. It is mated to an A3 McMillan stock, Huber 2 stage 2.5# trigger, Huskemaw 5x20 scope.
While I'd call this a .25MOA rifle, 200 yard groups like this have been very frequent.

Greyfox did you have Bartlien complete all the work on the rifle for as the trueing on the action and barrel install?...

 

[Greyfox]

Greyfox,



That's a great job performed by an outstanding supplier! But the shooter has to take a bow also because you still have to drive an accurate rifle, accurately. Congratulations!

Regards.

Greyfox did you have Bartlien complete all the work on the rifle for as the trueing on the action and barrel install?...

Yes. They did all the work, including the removal and return of the original barrel that was chambered in 30-06. I had seen Bartliens work on rifles owned by a few of my buddies which, in every case, excellent.

 

[excaliber]

I think allot of it has to do with who's doing the work on the gun, who's behind the gun and do they know how to get the best out of reloading for that particular rifle.

I have a Semi custom trued Rem 300 Win Mag with a Bartlein barrel and Timney trigger on it.

It shoots great for me and a couple guys at the range were able to shoot better groups with it than were getting with their full custom guns. One of the guys told me " Maybe I should true one of the 700's I have at home"

Is my trued Remington action better than the Stiller and Deviant Hunter actions on those other custom guns? I'd be be willing to bet all of you here would say no but it's shoots like one.

This just shows me there are many variables to getting a gun to shoot.

 

[fmajor]

In my limited experience, a blue printed action can be just as accurate as a custom. In the hardware department, i believe the barrel has the greatest affect on accuracy.

But like others have said, how well all the components are put together also matters significantly.

All that being said, i would preface with saying "to a point". That point being up to the exceptionally powerful chamberings.

A cavernous 338 bore will require much more from a receiver than say a 260 Creed or a 308 Win. It is there that a custom action is more a requirement for accuracy than what a mass-produced action can muster.

To me, moving up into realm of the really big stuff requires a precision machined action that is also designed for strength. Whereas a smaller chambering can attain great accuracy without considering the greater effects of the larger case capacity/caliber chamberings.

 

[Pdvdh]

In my limited experience, a blue printed action can be just as accurate as a custom.

All that being said, i would preface with saying "to a point". That point being up to the exceptionally powerful chamberings.

A cavernous 338 bore will require much more from a receiver than say a 260 Creed or a 308 Win. It is there that a custom action is more a requirement for accuracy than what a mass-produced action can muster.

Whereas a smaller chambering can attain great accuracy without considering the greater effects of the larger case capacity/caliber chamberings.

I've come to agree with your assessment of larger cartridges placing more stress / strain on the firearm, and the greater challenge posed to the firearm hardware in order to realize comparable accuracy from lesser capable hardware.

However gunsmiths on this forum have expressed disagreement. Along the lines of, as long as the components are assembled with proper alignment, precision, and tolerance, the greater energy and recoiling cartridges will shoot just as well as the lower energy cartridges. Even if the mass of the action and barrel are reduced. Which perplexes me. They should have a pretty good idea, no?

The 222 Rem and 223 Rem seem to shoot well out of so many rifle platforms. Even AR15s will often produce surprisingly good precision. And those actions are loose as a goose.

What I absorb from the Forums, hear from others, and observe first hand, leads me to think outstanding precision from smaller case capacity cartridges is more common than from larger capacity cartridges. Is it that the heavier recoiling rifles test the shooter's skill level more than the powder puffs? I suspect the factual test data and documentation to resolve this question remains elusive because of all the different variable factors comparing differing actions on rifles of different construction and weight. And perhaps most importantly - who's got the time and money for such an undertaking???

Perhaps one could study shorter range competitive equipment and records, and maybe see a trend? Or maybe not. I don't follow competitive shoots at all, so I don't know if pertinent data could be mined from those record books or not.

 

[Pdvdh]

This is what ACCURACY is.
It's not grouping.

Try it folks. No matter how well it groups, test it's actual accuracy.

Yeah, I hear ya. I do understand the difference between precision and accuracy. Shooters most commonly trample the definitions in conversation and communication - yet most of the time we seem to understand one another other.

I generally "try it" before every hunt, in the effort to confirm my rifle is capable of accurate hits over time. Really disappoints me if I have to adjust the scope turrets to recover my prior POI. Even a little. What good is a rifle with 0.5moa precision, if its accuracy deteriorates unexpectedly over time.