I was in a local gunshop and had a conversation with a group about smoothing the barrel of my savage 12fvss 223. I had it suggested that I use flitz paste on a patch wrapped around a smaller bore brush. (204 or 17 cal.) Has any one here tried this or heard of it?
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Smoothing the Barrel
- Thread starter kbb468
- Start date
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Not no, but heck no.
That is basically lapping the barrel and it will cause a belling at the muzzle. The master lappers at barrel makers cannot do that without causing that belling. That is why you always cut off 3/4-1" off the muzzle of a blank.
If you have a rough bore, then order David Tubbs fire lapping kit ($25) and proceed slowly. It has already lubed bullets with different grade grits. I would use only half (5)of the largest grit at first and then proceed to the smaller grits. Even then, that will erode the throat a little but smooth out the bore.
BH
That is basically lapping the barrel and it will cause a belling at the muzzle. The master lappers at barrel makers cannot do that without causing that belling. That is why you always cut off 3/4-1" off the muzzle of a blank.
If you have a rough bore, then order David Tubbs fire lapping kit ($25) and proceed slowly. It has already lubed bullets with different grade grits. I would use only half (5)of the largest grit at first and then proceed to the smaller grits. Even then, that will erode the throat a little but smooth out the bore.
BH
coupalr
Well-Known Member
What kind of groups are you getting? If it is shooting well don't mess with it. Are you concerned about the copper in the barrel? Or do you think it is rough enough that it is damaging the bullet? Just clean with wipe out and keep shooting it will get better.
It is fairly new and the groups are .3 to .5 depending on the shooter. My concerns are with the copper. It takes for ever to clean but eventually I get it with butches bore shine and kroil. I have heard of the process described by Bountyhunter (thanks BountyHunter) but I don't know of anyone who have tried it. So I should probably wait to see if it will affect accuracy in the long run and try the Wipe Out. Thanks
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Run a search on Final Finish. I have an ongoing (hopefully soon to be completed when I find time) thread on this stuff.
I have seen the effects of it on probably more than 2 dozen barrels including two of my own custom barrels and can testify to the effectiveness of it. I have not seen any throat erosion effects as BH mentions, but I have seen it enlarge the throat a touch so that it looks like the throat has eroded forward. THis has had no detrimental effects on accuracy. In fact, I was just out to the range last week with my 6.5-.284 that has had FF run through it and it shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards in the low .2"s. This barrel has had about 1100 rounds through it and was becoming a nightmare to clean. It was taking about 12-14 patches of Coppermelt to come clean and now it takes about 3-4. FF works!
I have seen the effects of it on probably more than 2 dozen barrels including two of my own custom barrels and can testify to the effectiveness of it. I have not seen any throat erosion effects as BH mentions, but I have seen it enlarge the throat a touch so that it looks like the throat has eroded forward. THis has had no detrimental effects on accuracy. In fact, I was just out to the range last week with my 6.5-.284 that has had FF run through it and it shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards in the low .2"s. This barrel has had about 1100 rounds through it and was becoming a nightmare to clean. It was taking about 12-14 patches of Coppermelt to come clean and now it takes about 3-4. FF works!
G
Guest
Guest
Shoot the dang rifle!! That....will "smooth" it as you say!!
If it is copper you are after, then buy Montana Extreme 50 BMG. Read the test results for this on www.6mmbr.com. came out the best in copper cleaners.
use a ME or Kleen Bore nylon bristle brush and watch copper roll out. Nothing beats it.
BH
use a ME or Kleen Bore nylon bristle brush and watch copper roll out. Nothing beats it.
BH
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing beats it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is something that beats it, they just haven't tested it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Yet.
Nothing beats it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is something that beats it, they just haven't tested it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Yet.
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Bad boy GG, bad boy. Slap slap!
ss7mm
Well-Known Member
GG:
I agree with you on the "something else". CM is all I use and with my new APS rifle it's a 3 patch clean and I'm done. Takes me all of 5 minutes to clean it completely, stem to stern.
I drive 200 miles round trip to get mine and it's time for another trip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I agree with you on the "something else". CM is all I use and with my new APS rifle it's a 3 patch clean and I'm done. Takes me all of 5 minutes to clean it completely, stem to stern.
I drive 200 miles round trip to get mine and it's time for another trip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
lerch
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
OKAY OKAY OKAY
GG if this stuff is that **** bad to the bone then I guess I will jsut have to try it,
one problem
where to I get some
steve
GG if this stuff is that **** bad to the bone then I guess I will jsut have to try it,
one problem
where to I get some
steve
Yea, Yea Yea
thought the same thing UNTIL we looked with a borescope. That is the only way to tell. Unless you have one, then just guessing like I was.
Ok,ok, bad boy too, slap slap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
BH
thought the same thing UNTIL we looked with a borescope. That is the only way to tell. Unless you have one, then just guessing like I was.
Ok,ok, bad boy too, slap slap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
BH
MT4XFore
Well-Known Member
Sorry to jump in here, but since you mentioned it..........
after reading how much y'all like Coppermelt I just had to have some. I ordered mine from Payson Sports just like you said, it arrived and with great anticipation I went to try it out. After installing my boreguide and putting a patch on my jag, I put the patch in the boreguide, and squirted a few drops of CM on the patch......it just ran off, like water off a duck's back. How do you get this stuff to "wet" a patch and not run off like it was hitting teflon? Any suggestions?
after reading how much y'all like Coppermelt I just had to have some. I ordered mine from Payson Sports just like you said, it arrived and with great anticipation I went to try it out. After installing my boreguide and putting a patch on my jag, I put the patch in the boreguide, and squirted a few drops of CM on the patch......it just ran off, like water off a duck's back. How do you get this stuff to "wet" a patch and not run off like it was hitting teflon? Any suggestions?
Mysticplayer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,459
I have smoothed several production and WWI/II barrels using JB non embedding and more recently, their Bore polishing compound. JB uses a very find clay and the polish is like jewelers rouge. Follow the instructions and you will get a much smoother brighter bore.
Cleaning, however, may not be much better because copper build up in the machine marks BELOW the rifling surface. This stuff does not affect accuracy so I just don't bother with it. Only rough spots or burrs that can tear the jackets are of concern to me. If you run a dry clean cotton or felt patch down the bore, any above surface rough spots will catch some fluff. Looking down the bore will show you where the lint has hung up. That I would polish out. No issue with muzzle belling.
Butches bore shine is not designed to get rid of copper commonly found in production barrels. Works great in match barrels but then copper fouling is usually very low.
Best commercial stuff is Barnes CR10. Use outside, very high ammonia content. Will strip copper out of those machine grooves. Very quick to use too.
Ultimately, as long as the barrel shoots for a decent number of shots, how dirty it gets is irrelevant. Most production barrels need to have fouling shots anyway before they shoot their best. After all that hard work cleaning, two or three fouling shots and you are right back where you were before you cleaned.
I just shoot my rifles until accuracy fades. That is usually WAAAAAAYYY longer then the average person thinks.
My Savage in 270 has digested over 150 shots, starting to show some light blue streaks in the bore, still shoots 3/8" at 100yds if I don't screw up. What would cleaning possibly improve????
If you are having problems with solvents wetting the patches, the patches are made from treated cotton. Very common these days with low care fabrics. Just go get some cloth diapers or cotton fabric from Wally land and cut these up. Problem solved and less then 5% the cost of commercial patches if you don't count the bit of labour.
Jerry
Cleaning, however, may not be much better because copper build up in the machine marks BELOW the rifling surface. This stuff does not affect accuracy so I just don't bother with it. Only rough spots or burrs that can tear the jackets are of concern to me. If you run a dry clean cotton or felt patch down the bore, any above surface rough spots will catch some fluff. Looking down the bore will show you where the lint has hung up. That I would polish out. No issue with muzzle belling.
Butches bore shine is not designed to get rid of copper commonly found in production barrels. Works great in match barrels but then copper fouling is usually very low.
Best commercial stuff is Barnes CR10. Use outside, very high ammonia content. Will strip copper out of those machine grooves. Very quick to use too.
Ultimately, as long as the barrel shoots for a decent number of shots, how dirty it gets is irrelevant. Most production barrels need to have fouling shots anyway before they shoot their best. After all that hard work cleaning, two or three fouling shots and you are right back where you were before you cleaned.
I just shoot my rifles until accuracy fades. That is usually WAAAAAAYYY longer then the average person thinks.
My Savage in 270 has digested over 150 shots, starting to show some light blue streaks in the bore, still shoots 3/8" at 100yds if I don't screw up. What would cleaning possibly improve????
If you are having problems with solvents wetting the patches, the patches are made from treated cotton. Very common these days with low care fabrics. Just go get some cloth diapers or cotton fabric from Wally land and cut these up. Problem solved and less then 5% the cost of commercial patches if you don't count the bit of labour.
Jerry
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