shooting your gun off hand or out of a tree stand (not so far distances)

[Canhunter35]

He did but this example is from a highly trained Olympic shooter at 10 meters. I was simply observing and mentioned that fact in my post. Most of us would be all over the paper unless we could build a good position to improve our steadiness.

I agree! Especially with my lr rigs. A sporter barrel, low recoiling rifle without bipods and a sling can be effective with practice.

 

[J E Custom]

He did but this example is from a highly trained Olympic shooter at 10 meters. I was simply observing and mentioned that fact in my post. Most of us would be all over the paper unless we could build a good position to improve our steadiness.

That is a very good example of a poor position but it happens unless you can find what works for you.

I was taught to try and find a position that was within the 9 ring (Not always possible) and then work on trigger control. I had what some called an 8 ring wobble most of the time and it was shaped like a bow-tie/figure eight and vertical was normally not an issue because vertical was normally in the 10 ring, so I was taught that as the site picture was moving into the center, start squeezing the trigger, once the sites started moving out of center stop squeezing the trigger until it was on its way back. (Trigger control).

If the position was poor the 8 ring wobble became worse and scores dropped. No one can hold dead center consistently so you have to adjust your position for the tightest "Wobble". If you work on trigger control you will be surprised how well you can hit the 10 ring with an 8 ring wobble. The thing you have to watch for and avoid is target panic. (Jerking the trigger when the hold looks good). this will not work because when you have a perfect site picture. the reaction is slow and you will miss center most of the time, and target panic can cause you to jerk/flinch and we all know what the results will be if that occurs .

On a good day, i often surprised my self once the scores came in because i didn't think i had that good of a position. With lots of practice you will be able to tell where the round broke and this will tell you if you are doing good or bad.

J E CUSTOM

 

[therifleman556]

Right handed shooter:

Right arm is nearly parallel to the ground, this creates a pocket for the butt pad to settle into and helps keep the comb against my cheek.

My left arm is about 45° to the ground with the hand mid way up the fore end.

I generally pull the rifle into my shoulder with my left hand and the right hand simply pulls the trigger.

My feet are roughly 45° to the target.

Works well for me, but I generally only shoot offhand when we're on a drive. Ranges rarely exceed 100 yards in these situations.

 

[LoneTraveler]

When it comes to off hand, odd position shooting depends a lot on the rifle and its trigger. A rifle with a heavy barrel with weight more forward are easier to hold in a smaller weave. A good regular trigger with a consistent pull. As the sight picture becomes perfect, Tighten the trigger hold as the rifle wobbles, When the sight picture becomes perfect tighten a little more and hold. Usually with good trigger control the 3rd or 4th perfect sight picture the rifle will sort of fire on its own. And the shot will be good. If you shoot with a 4 oz. international trigger it will go on the first sight picture.

In the Army from 1962 to 65 I was first issued an M1. I could shoot it well off hand, or in odd positions. Then we was issued M-14s. With the 20 round mag, shorter barrel, No wood out to near muzzle and the gas piston moved back into the forearm the balance was moved back into the center of the action. I could never shoot the M-14 offhand as well as the M-1.
A sling helps but, You can waste time getting into a sling position when hunting. You may have time to wrap in a hasty sling for a better shot.
If shooting a rifle with a carry sling I like to have the sling held between my hand and forearm so it can't flop around.
Using one of those stock butt cartridge holders will change a rifles balance with a large caliber gun.

Spent a little time shooting with sling and position shooting.
Win. M 52 Bull barrel Rear and Front Redfield peep sights.
I was Captain of the 1964-65 Fort Dix Small Bore Rifle Team.

 

[WildRose]

I was fortunate to have training in the military and go on to shoot NRA matches for many years, and the positions I was taught, was good information and very useful in hunting situations.

Like others, I try to find a tree or limb when I can Or or when stand hunting, use the sill. But when stalking or just walking, seldom are you afforded these luxuries and I have to resort to conditioned positions i was taught.

Here is some information on different positions that May help you to find the best way for your type of hunting using only your body with no available aid.

This link shows all of the recommended positions and hopefully you can use one of them.
http://www.petersenshunting.com/tips-tactics/basic-shooting-positions-every-hunter-should-master/

These are very good positions and with practice can be very accurate
And should be practiced if your terrain does not have many features that can help.

The longest distance I have fired off hand, is 500 meters at running Boar targets and these positions helped in the field.

J E CUSTOM

This is why I have taken to carrying the Primo's Tripod or at least the bipod version when stalking.

If you can eliminate the motion in the vertical plane by using one and bracing either shoulder on a tree, post, or partner controlling the horizontal motion alone is not a particularly big hurdle.

 

[WildRose]

That is a very good example of a poor position but it happens unless you can find what works for you.

I was taught to try and find a position that was within the 9 ring (Not always possible) and then work on trigger control. I had what some called an 8 ring wobble most of the time and it was shaped like a bow-tie/figure eight and vertical was normally not an issue because vertical was normally in the 10 ring, so I was taught that as the site picture was moving into the center, start squeezing the trigger, once the sites started moving out of center stop squeezing the trigger until it was on its way back. (Trigger control).

If the position was poor the 8 ring wobble became worse and scores dropped. No one can hold dead center consistently so you have to adjust your position for the tightest "Wobble". If you work on trigger control you will be surprised how well you can hit the 10 ring with an 8 ring wobble. The thing you have to watch for and avoid is target panic. (Jerking the trigger when the hold looks good). this will not work because when you have a perfect site picture. the reaction is slow and you will miss center most of the time, and target panic can cause you to jerk/flinch and we all know what the results will be if that occurs .

On a good day, i often surprised my self once the scores came in because i didn't think i had that good of a position. With lots of practice you will be able to tell where the round broke and this will tell you if you are doing good or bad.

J E CUSTOM

This is an essential part of marksmanship that most people don't even seem to know about anymore. It's all but impossible to eliminate all motion when lining up a shot so learning to know exactly when the shot breaks is essential to learning how to time your shot for the most accurate possible outcome.

 

[WildRose]

When it comes to off hand, odd position shooting depends a lot on the rifle and its trigger. A rifle with a heavy barrel with weight more forward are easier to hold in a smaller weave. A good regular trigger with a consistent pull. As the sight picture becomes perfect, Tighten the trigger hold as the rifle wobbles, When the sight picture becomes perfect tighten a little more and hold. Usually with good trigger control the 3rd or 4th perfect sight picture the rifle will sort of fire on its own. And the shot will be good. If you shoot with a 4 oz. international trigger it will go on the first sight picture.

In the Army from 1962 to 65 I was first issued an M1. I could shoot it well off hand, or in odd positions. Then we was issued M-14s. With the 20 round mag, shorter barrel, No wood out to near muzzle and the gas piston moved back into the forearm the balance was moved back into the center of the action. I could never shoot the M-14 offhand as well as the M-1.
A sling helps but, You can waste time getting into a sling position when hunting. You may have time to wrap in a hasty sling for a better shot.
If shooting a rifle with a carry sling I like to have the sling held between my hand and forearm so it can't flop around.
Using one of those stock butt cartridge holders will change a rifles balance with a large caliber gun.

Spent a little time shooting with sling and position shooting.
Win. M 52 Bull barrel Rear and Front Redfield peep sights.
I was Captain of the 1964-65 Fort Dix Small Bore Rifle Team.

Very good information.

With a regular carry sling I adjust them so that I can just stick my left elbow through it and tighten it against my upper and lower arm by sliding my hand forward on the stock until it produces the desired result.

Add to this bracing off of a bipod, tree etc and accuracy becomes much easier.

 

[J E Custom]

This is why I have taken to carrying the Primo's Tripod or at least the bipod version when stalking.

If you can eliminate the motion in the vertical plane by using one and bracing either shoulder on a tree, post, or partner controlling the horizontal motion alone is not a particularly big hurdle.

When hunting on uneven terrain, I like to use a mono pod or a by pod that is long enough to use as a walking stick for stability and for that offhand shot that may present its self. If there is no time to set up with it, I revert back to the offhand position and just drop the mono/by pod.

Any kind of rest is better, but you can always use the offhand position for shooting if you practice it.

J E CUSTOM

 

[WildRose]

When hunting on uneven terrain, I like to use a mono pod or a by pod that is long enough to use as a walking stick for stability and for that offhand shot that may present its self. If there is no time to set up with it, I revert back to the offhand position and just drop the mono/by pod.

Any kind of rest is better, but you can always use the offhand position for shooting if you practice it.

J E CUSTOM

Most normal folks can do it just fine and I did a lot of it prior to all my shoulder and arm injuries.

The last 20 years or so I've had to learn to compensate. It's pretty humbling considering when I was younger I was quite adept at shooting pigeons with my dad's old 572 Remington pump. I was probably 16 before anyone went with me and told me it was impossible.

I'm still handy enough with a shotgun to do very well with wing shooting but those old days are long gone.

 

[Schnyd112]

Seems I have a different philosophy then most of you. I learned how to shoot a rifle as well as a bow in much the same way.

I let the crosshairs float on the target and just let the shot happen. I don't try to keep the crosshair steady I'm just immersed in aiming (maybe better described as focused on the spot I want to hit) while my body subconsciously squeezes the trigger.

If I where to try and time the shot to where my crosshair crossed the exact spot it lead to a sure trigger slap and probable poor shot. It's very difficult to describe to someone that hasn't experienced it while shooting weather a bow or rifle or pistol it all works the same. Your body has a natural aiming mechanism so as long as you have practiced good form and have that muscle memory you can place that shot where it needed to go EVEN IF TO YOUR EYE THE CROSSHAIR, PIN, DOT OR WHATEVER DID NOT APPEAR TO BE WHERE IT NEEDED TO BE. The key is to execute the shot well and use that same good form you've practiced with.

I have a good friend that I shoot trad archery with so he understands the concept I just described. It still works the same there's just no aiming point with a trad bow, your simply burning a hole in the spot you wanna hit with your eye's. Anyway I was over with my Henry Golden Boy in 17hmr, of course you don't put optics on a gun like that so just the stock buckhorn sight. Well I pulled up and hammered a little 3" dinger plate that was about 40 yrds from us. Then my buddy went to try and he sprayed dirt around the dinger for the first 5 shots. So I told him shoot it just like the bow, let the sight float around the plate and focus on executing a clean shot, don't worry if the sight looks dead on target. Sure enough he drilled it the next 3 shots...so we put her away on a good note!

Now don't get me wrong you can absolutely shoot much tighter groups prone or off a bench with a good rest. But shooting the way I do I'm killing accurate offhand out to 300 yrds.

This is the best discription I have heard. I don't shoot archery much anymore but I learned on a trad recurve before I had anything with pins and cams. The same thing happens with shotguns. It's amazing how many people can pick up a shotgun and break 3/5 the first time they shoot. Your body points to your eyes instinctively. When you start thinking to much or trying to hard you get in the way of a good mechanism.

If I shoot offhand I try to get the shot off quick. Both eyes open, gun tight to my shoulder, little forward lean, try to pull the trigger at the top of the upstroke before things start getting wiggly. I haven't ever taken a standing shot hunting big game but shoot at steel and milk jugs. The buck in my avatar was kneeling from about 80 yards as he tried to sneak out on us.

 

[J E Custom]

Most normal folks can do it just fine and I did a lot of it prior to all my shoulder and arm injuries.

The last 20 years or so I've had to learn to compensate. It's pretty humbling considering when I was younger I was quite adept at shooting pigeons with my dad's old 572 Remington pump. I was probably 16 before anyone went with me and told me it was impossible.

I'm still handy enough with a shotgun to do very well with wing shooting but those old days are long gone.

Do you mean to tell me that us old timers aren't like fine wine ?. We don't get better with age? .

J E CUSTOM

 

[WildRose]

Do you mean to tell me that us old timers aren't like fine wine ?. We don't get better with age? .

J E CUSTOM

I was doing great till I hit about 45 at which time I started finding out just how much I'd abused myself during the 30 years or so prior when I noticed things were falling apart rapidly.

 

[Hand Skills]

This is such a great forum, there are some really good posts here. I think it's an important topic too.

Many of us grew up shooting .22's, and after a few boxes of shells it ain't no thing to hit a spent 12ga shell at 25yrd. So why is shooting CF off hand so hard?

I think @WildRose post #5 and @Lonewolf74 post #10 are onto something.

For years I practiced exclusively offhand. I tried a lot of different techniques. Some worked, some didn't, and others just didn't work in the field.

In my experience, being able to 'hold' small requires a high degree of fitness, and a 'silhouette style' position (feet almost perpendicular to the target, support hand under floor plate, elbow on hip). Though cardio fitness is a real asset, I've not found the 'target style' approach useful in the field.

Don't worry about holding small. Look at the target. Close eyes. Shoulder rifle. On target? If not, lower the rifle, shuffle feet and repeat. Ask your body to do it, because the mind is not much help here.

On target? Good. Notice how point of aim goes up when you breathe in? Down when you breath out? Good. Keep breathing (especially important in the field)

my right arm is pretty much parallel to the ground. (Play around with this, raising and lowering of the elbow should cause the butt of the rifle to rotate with your shoulder)

My left elbow is pretty much straight under the rifle, just touching my rib cage.

Both hands grip firmly. I find if I pull the gun into my shoulder with my trigger hand, when pulling the trigger it's much easier to vector the force straight back. I don't wrap my thumb over the stock.

Breath modulates the vertical component, so I try to get a sense (as I breathe) of how full my lungs are as the crosshairs move over the target. Im not even thinking about horizontal - just vertical. Say I cross centre at 60% lung capacity. I'll try to stop the next exhale at 60%.

At this point my finger comes off the guard and onto the trigger. Now it's just a matter of getting the desired sight picture and breaking the trigger without moving the gun. (Isn't it always).

I don't spend much time snorkelling these days, so when I hold my breath I have about 4 seconds before my heart rate starts to increase and blood pressure climbs. As a result if I don't make the window, I'll lower the rifle for about 10 seconds and start again.

I'm by no means an expert, but I can consistently break clays at 100yd (facing not flying...), I have logged more than one offhand group under 2", (though shoot enough of them and it's bound to happen I suppose)

Tips;
-dry fire, a LOT. Get onto target, break the shot without blinking, and a real bullet would land where the crosshairs were after the click. Do it at home, every day if you can, even if it's only 5 or 10 pulls of the trigger. Frequency over volume.

-aim small miss small; use the smallest target you can find for dry fire 1/2moa-2moa, distance doesn't matter.

-use binary targets when going hot. Don't worry about groups. Balloons are pretty good for building confidence. Inexpensive, and you can blow them up to the size of a deer's vital zone.

-fitness. Good cardio health will help your shooting. It will help a lot of other things too.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

There is a lot of muscle memory in off hand shooting. Ive seen guys with awful form that could do it well.

Regardless of form, you will need to practice it a lot!

If you want proper form, look at competition shooters, they will do many things the same.