Remington 700 .223 VLS / .308 confusion

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by HeskethPritchard, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. HeskethPritchard

    HeskethPritchard Well-Known Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    Guys I was trying to get a decent group with my Rem 700 VLS in .223 using 55gr bullets and wasn't happy so I thought I'd do a little investigating.

    The Remington website says:

    Caliber Mag.Cap. Barrel Length Rate of Twist Overall Length

    223 Remington 5 26 "12" 45 3/4"

    .308 Win. 4 26 "12" 45 3/4"

    it has a 1 in 12" twist rate which is the same as the .308 Win.

    I thought I was restricted to bullet weights of 55gr or less with a 1 in 12" twist and yet the .308 is the same and I KNOW:eek: I'm puttin 150gr's through that. I'm confused can anybody help straighten me out on this please? Can I go higher than 55gr in a 1 in 12" or not? and if not why not?

    Thanks HP
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2007
  2. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2001
    Comparing a .224 bore to the .308 bore is like comparing apples to oranges, or so the saying goes.

    In a .224 bore a 12" twist will "generally" limit you to a 55gr bullet depending on overall bullet length. Some 12" twist barrels won't even shoot the 55's very well. Velocity is another factor that affects a rifle's ability to stabilize a bullet in any particular twist but is has a much smaller influence on stability than rate -of-twist.

    Try some 52gr-53gr match bullets.

  3. HeskethPritchard

    HeskethPritchard Well-Known Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    Thanks VH

    will look into that.
  4. Olio Tutto

    Olio Tutto Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2007
    maybe this will help

    twist chart
    "The information below will help you select the best barrel twist for your specific needs, providing of course there are multiple choices. If you’ll be shooting one bullet weight, choose a twist from the chart just fast enough to stabilize it. Too fast a twist simply overspins the bullet and may result in reduced accuracy. On the other hand, a twist too slow for any bullet will likely produce instability, keyholing and rotten accuracy. So if you’re going to be using several bullet weights, be sure to select a twist that will stabilize the heaviest one, since lighter bullets will also be stabilized.
    By way of explanation, the numbers in the "Twist" column indicate how far the bullet must travel through the bore to make one full revolution. This is determined by the rate of rotation of the rifling. For example, a 9"-twist barrel spins the bullet one full turn when it passes 9 inches through the bore. In a 16"-twist barrel, the bullet makes one revolution in 16 inches. So at the same bullet velocity, the 9" twist is faster (spins the bullet faster) than the 16" twist. Consequently, as the chart reflects in the .224 CF section, the 9" twist is necessary for stabilizing heavier bullet weights.
    Again looking at the .224 CF section, if you’re planning to shoot 55-grain bullets, the 14" twist is ideal. This twist is also the best choice for 52- and 53-grain match bullets driven at moderate velocities. But if you’re also contemplating shooting a 60-grainer, go with the 12" twist, since it will stabilize all the bullets you’ll be using. As you can see from the 15" and 16" twists, higher velocities also spin the bullet faster and may enable a slower-than-recommended twist to stabilize a marginally overweight bullet. However, this is tricky stuff best left to those who are highly experienced in operating at the ragged edge of stability and sanity.
    The basic principles just outlined apply to all the calibers below. But, if you have questions or need a recommendation, let us know.
    Caliber Twist

    .224 CF 8" For bullets heavier than 70 gr.
    9" For bullets up to 70 gr.
    12" For bullets up to 63 gr.
    14" For bullets up to 55 gr.
    15"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,100 fps or more
    16"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,300 fps or more

    .308 8" For bullets heavier than 220gr.
    10" For bullets up to 220 gr.
    12" For bullets up to 170 gr.
    14"* For bullets up to 168 gr. 15"* For bullets up to 150 gr.

  5. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

    May 8, 2001

    That twist chart only applies to soft point and regular hollow point bullets - if you use plastic tipped bullets, it no longer applies, cuz they are longer.

    Go one twist faster for plastic tipped bullets. ie, 60 gr V-Max should be used in a 10", because a 12" may not be able to stabilize it.