reloading question

[jb1000br]

Comp shellholders are the way to go.

"Whatever you do DO NOT set up your sizing die with the bottom of the die touching the shellholder!!!!!!!!!!!!"

This doesnt always oversize...depends on HOW HARD you are hitting the base of the die -- spring/slop in the press setup will usually let you at least touch the die, if not cam over.

I wouldm't size WITHOUT camming the shellholder off the die!! -- it helps to seat the die square in the threads.

Also, if you have a space between the die and SH, you will often make things chamber tighter, cause you are squeezing a lump of brass to the web area.

this WILL cause tight chambering -- BTDT with belted mags.

YMMV,
JB

 

[goodgrouper]

Jmden,
You hit the nail on the head!

The ram can be utilized to "straighten" the die as it is being screwed down. COncentricity usually improves dramatically when using standard dies. It also offsets any misalignment between the top of the press and the ram/shaft housing which there usually is on a mass produced press. This method does require the user to do a little more maintenance with cleanliness of the ram, but it pays off in the long run.


However, occasionally (usually with my luck) I find FL dies that are too long right out of the box and won't even touch the shoulder with the die all the way down to the shell holder! So, a guy might think he is full length sizing when in fact he is just barely touching the neck only! I think this is what is happening to the guy who started this thread.

For this problem, a comp shellholder work but not as well in my opinion. A better route (and cheaper too) is to send them to a machinist and have the die cut down shorter by .005" or whatever is needed to make it FL size again. I then use the headspace gauges from Stoney Point to see where I'm at with the length. A machinist can fix the die forever for about $15 bucks or less compared to the cost of getting several comp shellholders (up to $30 or more).


One other thing that I would like to mention is that I set up my dies fresh each time I use them. The reason for this is that sometimes when you set lock rings, the set screw can push against the ring and die body and cause a slight misalignment so that the next time you screw the die down onto the lock ring, it will be slightly off center. This is why I never set the lock ring. I just set it up fresh every time by threading down onto the shell holder and I cut my dies (if need be) so that this can be done. The ammo will usually run less than .001" out on concentricity in this manner.

Now, if a FL die is too short out of the box, then you must use either shims or comp shellholders to take up the slack. I personally would rather have a too long die than a too short die because I can custom fit the die if it is too long.

Just my two cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jb1000br]

[ QUOTE ]

However, occasionally (usually with my luck) I find FL dies that are too long right out of the box and won't even touch the shoulder with the die all the way down to the shell holder! So, a guy might think he is full length sizing when in fact he is just barely touching the neck only! I think this is what is happening to the guy who started this thread.

For this problem, a comp shellholder work but not as well in my opinion. A better route (and cheaper too) is to send them to a machinist and have the die cut down shorter by .005" or whatever is needed to make it FL size again. I then use the headspace gauges from Stoney Point to see where I'm at with the length. A machinist can fix the die forever for about $15 bucks or less compared to the cost of getting several comp shellholders (up to $30 or more).


One other thing that I would like to mention is that I set up my dies fresh each time I use them. The reason for this is that sometimes when you set lock rings, the set screw can push against the ring and die body and cause a slight misalignment so that the next time you screw the die down onto the lock ring, it will be slightly off center. This is why I never set the lock ring. I just set it up fresh every time by threading down onto the shell holder and I cut my dies (if need be) so that this can be done. The ammo will usually run less than .001" out on concentricity in this manner.

Now, if a FL die is too short out of the box, then you must use either shims or comp shellholders to take up the slack. I personally would rather have a too long die than a too short die because I can custom fit the die if it is too long.

Just my two cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

GG -- You are backwards on the comp shellholder/shim usage

They will only serve to move the case OUT of the die, not INTO.

The thickest comp SH is cut 2 thou THINNER than a normal shellholder.

So if the die IS NOT BUMPING the shoulder, the comp shellholders WILL NOT HELP as they move the case in the wrong direction.

If the die IS BUMPING TOO MUCH, then shims and/or comp SH's will fix the problem and still allow you to cam the SH off the die.

The SH labeled "+0.002"" = it is increasing the headspace dim of the case over a standard shellholder....and DECREASING the case:chamber headspace (clear as mud?)

RE: resetting the die each time -- i keep mine tight, but may step up or down one shellholder between setups, thou recently i have been lucky and have been able to stay with the same shellholder each time i setup.

JB

 

[goodgrouper]

You are correct. I visualized that backwards on the (redding?) shellholders and misunderstood how you were shimming. Sorry.

 

[Guest]

goodgrouper

For a new set of dies....what I've found that I do is UNTIL....I check a resized case or so....I leave a slight gap....between the shellholder and the bottom of the die and if the "feel" is right....I'll go with the die using the gap. If the "feel" isn't right...I may take the die on down until it's touching the shellholder or just slightly off the holder!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[curtis]

leadtag101101 ,

When I first started reloading (last year) I had this problem. I wasn't seating my bullets down inside the case far enough and the bolt was very hard to close. I never had anyone show me how to reload. I just followed the directions in the book and just went with it. If you still have any rounds that you tried to chamber but were really tight, check the bullet on that round. You should be able to see marks or grooves from the riflings on your bullet. This might be one area to look at. This would tell you if you needed to seat your bullets down a little farther. Just a suggestion.

 

[william101]

Thanks guys!I appreciate the helpful advice.Sorry took so long for a response.Been hunting my arse off,Good ole whitetails are nowjust starting to rut here.
After I posted for the second time,I really got antsy and wanted to figure what was going on,I called RCBS and talked to a lady and described my delema,she told me that they have had this problem also with the new 325 WSM dies as well.She told me to send my dies along with 5 fired shells and that they would machine my dies and correct the problem,well its the middle of hunting season and this was not an option!!so I went back into the reloading room up at my cousins and began fidling around with the dies,and re-reading the small amount of material for setup in the rcbs manual.In my fiddling around stage ,I reset the sizing die as recomended,then I rotated the sizing die about two turns down even further and stuck a case in the shell holder and gave it a try,I gave the handle a little more then normal tension and then removed the case and tried it in my chamber and shut the bolt.It closed perfectly and the stiffness was gone!!Soo I reexamined the case and everything was fine.So I reloaded about 20 shells this way,ran up the hill to his shooting range and fired 3 rounds,and all was well.Anyways it worked out all right.Thanks again for the help.

 

[jb1000br]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys!I appreciate the helpful advice.Sorry took so long for a response.Been hunting my arse off,Good ole whitetails are nowjust starting to rut here.
After I posted for the second time,I really got antsy and wanted to figure what was going on,I called RCBS and talked to a lady and described my delema,she told me that they have had this problem also with the new 325 WSM dies as well.She told me to send my dies along with 5 fired shells and that they would machine my dies and correct the problem,well its the middle of hunting season and this was not an option!!so I went back into the reloading room up at my cousins and began fidling around with the dies,and re-reading the small amount of material for setup in the rcbs manual.In my fiddling around stage ,I reset the sizing die as recomended,then I rotated the sizing die about two turns down even further and stuck a case in the shell holder and gave it a try,I gave the handle a little more then normal tension and then removed the case and tried it in my chamber and shut the bolt.It closed perfectly and the stiffness was gone!!Soo I reexamined the case and everything was fine.So I reloaded about 20 shells this way,ran up the hill to his shooting range and fired 3 rounds,and all was well.Anyways it worked out all right.Thanks again for the help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kind of figured that was the case -- you gotta hit the bottom of the die HARD, normally "just touching" is not "not gonna do it"

you have to remove the slack from all the moving parts to actually bump the shoulder.

After hunting season you really ought to get a stoney point headspace gauge kit. These bolt on to a set of calipers and will show you how much you are moving the shoulder.

I have had LAPUA 308 brass separate at the head on the 7th firing...shoulders were only moving 0.005 with the FL sizing and it still separated...

I go for 2thou (0.002) bump on most stuff and 0.0005-0.001 bump on BR stuff.

YMMV,
JB

 

[270WSM]

I have found the same situation as you. With my Redding FL S-type die, I setup the die as recommended, 1/2 turn off my shellholder, resized a case and chambered it. Very sticky. Worked the die down (toward the shellholder) in small increments resizing a case and chambering it each time. I finally came to where the case would chamber easily. No the Rockchucker press has to cam over a lot to get the FL sizing I need. Seems to work fine, guess I need to get a headspace guage and make sure I'm only sizing .001-.002"

 

[Freebore]

I set my dies using a set of 'shoulder bump' measurement gages. You put these on your calibers, insert fired (use 2 or 3) case to measure from the end of case to the somewhere on the shoulder to get measurement. Set the shoulder 'setback' on the dies to bump back 1-2 thousands. Works everytime. Once dies are set you should be good to go. Comp shell holders are great for fine tuning what your rifle likes.

 

[Innovative]

leadtag,
Take a look at our website (below) and you can read all about the exact symptom that you described. There is now a good fix for the symptom of "tight fitting cases". Our website also contains a jillion reloading tips that you'll like.