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recoil v accuracy
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<blockquote data-quote="RDM416" data-source="post: 521210" data-attributes="member: 3745"><p>Ok guys, lets do a little math: Two assumptions, we are shooting 3000 fps using a 26" barrel. </p><p></p><p>3000 FPS X 12 = 36000 IPS (inches per second)</p><p></p><p>26 (barrel length) / 36000 IPS = .00072222</p><p></p><p>So at 3000 fps it will take a bullet .0007222 seconds to travel the length of a 26" barrel. </p><p></p><p>Obviously this does not take into account the acceleration factor since the bullet is starting at "0".</p><p></p><p>It should be much less than this, but just to account for acceleration time lets say it takes 3 X that time for the bullet to travel the length of the barrel. </p><p></p><p>.0007222 X 3 = .002166 seconds. </p><p></p><p>For the more technical of you out there I understand this math is not complete, but it is close enough for us to get an idea of how little time a bullet stays in the barrel after ignition. </p><p></p><p>Again, not going into more math that would get complex, but just consider, you have a 180 grain bullet and a 10 LB rifle. When you factor the speed and weight of the bullet with the mass of the rifle. (large mass moves slow) the bullet has long since left the bore before there is ANY significant movement of the rifle. </p><p></p><p>NOW....... I do not even begin to put my shooting experience level up there with Darrell Holland or David Tubb. However, I am an engineer and while for simplicity sake I have taken some liberties with the math, I believe the math says that there is simply not enough time for the recoil to effect the path of the bullet enough for any measurable amount. </p><p></p><p>I suspect what you are seeing, and what probably most of us may have thought was recoil related issues have other explanations. </p><p></p><p>First of all, even in the best of BR situations our rifle is NEVER "perfectly" still. Second, no matter how much we like to say "I don't flinch" we do. A flinch can be a twitch or a jerk or it can simply be a little extra thumb or palm pressure. That type of "flinch" can be almost impossible to diagnose but can cause very real problems. There are the often overlooked factors of our own reaction time from when we thought we broke the trigger to when we actually did, there is the inherent "lock" time it takes for the trigger / hammer / firing pin to strike, there is the time delay for the initial ignition of the primer........ All these things happen fast, but in real time they take much, much longer to happen than the amount of time the bullet spends in the barrel after ignition. </p><p></p><p>Some rifles also tend to be sensitive to how they are held. Tightly, or lose, or if shooting off a bipod or where the front rest is when shooting off a bench......... I suspect much of that has to do with with what I described above of a slight bit of different pressure or twist as you squeeze the trigger, however those things could change the harmonics of stock / action / barrel and induce some amount of POI change. I have certainly experienced the effect myself and have seen it experienced by others. But in conclusion if you are having difficulty getting a hard recoiling rifle to group well, you need to look for other explanations. The recoil is not moving your rifle enough to matter. Maybe if you are a world champion shooter like Tubb, I might cut you a little slack, but in the end math is math........ </p><p></p><p>I probably stirred up a can of worms on this one, I can take it, bring it on if you disagree<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RDM416, post: 521210, member: 3745"] Ok guys, lets do a little math: Two assumptions, we are shooting 3000 fps using a 26" barrel. 3000 FPS X 12 = 36000 IPS (inches per second) 26 (barrel length) / 36000 IPS = .00072222 So at 3000 fps it will take a bullet .0007222 seconds to travel the length of a 26" barrel. Obviously this does not take into account the acceleration factor since the bullet is starting at "0". It should be much less than this, but just to account for acceleration time lets say it takes 3 X that time for the bullet to travel the length of the barrel. .0007222 X 3 = .002166 seconds. For the more technical of you out there I understand this math is not complete, but it is close enough for us to get an idea of how little time a bullet stays in the barrel after ignition. Again, not going into more math that would get complex, but just consider, you have a 180 grain bullet and a 10 LB rifle. When you factor the speed and weight of the bullet with the mass of the rifle. (large mass moves slow) the bullet has long since left the bore before there is ANY significant movement of the rifle. NOW....... I do not even begin to put my shooting experience level up there with Darrell Holland or David Tubb. However, I am an engineer and while for simplicity sake I have taken some liberties with the math, I believe the math says that there is simply not enough time for the recoil to effect the path of the bullet enough for any measurable amount. I suspect what you are seeing, and what probably most of us may have thought was recoil related issues have other explanations. First of all, even in the best of BR situations our rifle is NEVER "perfectly" still. Second, no matter how much we like to say "I don't flinch" we do. A flinch can be a twitch or a jerk or it can simply be a little extra thumb or palm pressure. That type of "flinch" can be almost impossible to diagnose but can cause very real problems. There are the often overlooked factors of our own reaction time from when we thought we broke the trigger to when we actually did, there is the inherent "lock" time it takes for the trigger / hammer / firing pin to strike, there is the time delay for the initial ignition of the primer........ All these things happen fast, but in real time they take much, much longer to happen than the amount of time the bullet spends in the barrel after ignition. Some rifles also tend to be sensitive to how they are held. Tightly, or lose, or if shooting off a bipod or where the front rest is when shooting off a bench......... I suspect much of that has to do with with what I described above of a slight bit of different pressure or twist as you squeeze the trigger, however those things could change the harmonics of stock / action / barrel and induce some amount of POI change. I have certainly experienced the effect myself and have seen it experienced by others. But in conclusion if you are having difficulty getting a hard recoiling rifle to group well, you need to look for other explanations. The recoil is not moving your rifle enough to matter. Maybe if you are a world champion shooter like Tubb, I might cut you a little slack, but in the end math is math........ I probably stirred up a can of worms on this one, I can take it, bring it on if you disagree:D:D [/QUOTE]
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