Recoil lug realy needed??

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by James Jones, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I'll be strarting to screw some parts together here soon and was wondering if a recoil lug is realy needed on heavy barreled smaller caliber rifles? I'm gonna be building a Remington M-7 action with a heavy varmint barrel 28" long chambered for 6x47. I have some concerns with the small action supporting that big of a barrel in a laminated stock with typical pillers and Devcon bedding. So I was thinking that i would make a V-block that would support the 4" of full shank barrel and front part of the action , the block would be screwed to the front action hole and two other screws in the barrel shank ,their by free floating 24" of barrel and the action from the mag well back.
    I ask about the recoil lug because it would be alot easier to make a stronger block without having to inlet it for the recoil lug.
    Another option I was considering was just using two realy big pillers , like a 1.250" in from and a .750 in the back then fully bedding the action around them with Devcon steel putty.

    Any of you guys ever fool with type of setup or have any ideas about it? am I over worrying about the barrel weight and the action strength??
    This is gonna be my first all out target/LR varmint gun and I'd like it to be competitive in some F-class and maybe some informal BR shootes as well as maybe taking a dirt poodel at 1K
     
  2. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    Recoil lug

    In most cases, when a barrel block is used, the block serves as the lug. I've never seen a block that clamped the barrel and, extended back over the action. Don't see why it wouldn't work. I have built several small caliber rifles, on the BAT SV actions, that were fitted without lugs. The large tang at the rear of the action served as the lug. These were 17 Ackley Hornets and 20 Javelina rifles.
     

  3. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    to be honest i don't like what you're going to do, if i'm understanding your description correctly. you're gonna take a piece of steel(v-block) and attach it with screws to the bottom of the barrel and forward part of the receiver.what happens if the alignment of all 3 isn't perfect? to me you will be imparting a huge amount of stress into both the receiver and barrel. again these are my thoughts if i understand your description correctly.

    the way i'd do it and it would be the most accurate, would be to glue a bedding block to the full shank part of the barrel right in front of the action.the mod 7 action is not exactly the strongest receiver. then bed the block and maybe the rear tang of the receiver because your block might be rather short.you said a 4" straight in front of the receiver.of course an 8" block would be better and you wouldn't have to bed the rear tang of the receiver.just float the receiver.
     
  4. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Making a V-block that attaches to the barrel and the action is not that hard ,I actualy made one already just to have something to look at ,the block even had a step so that the barrel shank and the action had the same amout of conatack pressure despite their being .105" differance in diameter. As for drilling the holes it would not be an issue as long as your mill and vise are both true , you would simply aligne the front action screw with the bottom dead center of the barrel , theoreticaly the front action screw would be dead center of the action and if you index the barrel correctly so that the curve is pointing up rather than to either side the two holes you drill and tape in the barrel shank will be strait in line with the bore.
    Darrel Holland does a simillar setup but sets up thae barrel so that the recoil lug yes way up close to the radius of the barrel and it seats up against the block and the lug is held in place by a nut.

    Their are probably a dozen ways to skin this cat but I have decide to simply bed the action the conventional way with pillers and bedding under the shank of the barrel. I'll be using a 3/4" piller i the rear and a 1.25" piller in the front. The rear piller will be holding the action in place under the trigger guard which will be glued in place. the front piller will be fully surrounded by ALOT of bedding the bedding will be 1" deep and 1.75" wide and extend from the front of the trigger group to 3" in front of the action. This action has a Davidson singleshot follower glued in place so the whole mag well will be filler with bedding.

    I'm going to add a good bit of atomized SS powder to the Devcon Steel Putty so that its glue to steel ratio is very low , just enought to set up hard (I'm testing that now) and the action screws have been custom made , the rear action scrwon the M-7 comes from the factory way undersized , it has been drilled and tapped for 1/4-28+.010" like the front which was retapped ,the screws are made from 3/8" 17-4 SS flat head torx head screws with 82 deg taper , they have been cut down and single point cut to a snug 1/4-28+.009" thread and hardened the screws fit into the action with zero detectible play and are clean as glass.

    The purpose of this gun is to make tiny little groups at 600 and 1000yds with 115gr Berger bullets. but still weigh in the 17lb glass. Personaly i think that I'm way over thinking and way over engineering this project but its gonna be my first run a target comps and I'd like it to be built to be able to hang with the best. If you think this is over built you should see my rest !!
     
  5. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    Rest? You have an over engineered rest too? I wanna see. Does it look anything like my F-Class rest? I am scared to drag mine to a match cause someone is gonna cry foul, even though it is completely legal.
     
  6. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Its not realy over engineered but its definatly over built, what would you expect from a government contractor:D. It looks kinda like what Mr Don's does but non-windage adjustable at the base , I'll likely use a windage top. Lets say that Mr Don's is made fore a 300 , mines made for a 50BMG !! , theirs no weight class for the rest is their:confused: this thing is gonna weigh in the 30lb range

    I just figured that I'd build it big cause I'm planning on a 50 one day.


    You have a great Christmas Eddybo and to everybody else that comes alog , this will be my last post for a while , I gotta go play Santa and I'm gonna be wide open tomorrow.
     
  7. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    No weight limit. I forgot you have not seen my f-class rest. It isnt like my benchrest rest. It looks like a giant 3 legged aluminum and brass tarantula with two inch spikes on the bottom of its feet. I would guess that the legs are 24 inches long. You would have to see a picture to beleive it. Once my wife lets me open my christmas presnt ( a new camera) I will post pics. It is like having a 4 inch tall cement bench.
     
  8. toddconley

    toddconley Well-Known Member

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    Barrel block has to not toucht the action

    I tried it. Took a 1 hole rifle and turned it into a gun that wouldn't shoot any tighter than a quarter. Atached a scope rail from the barrel block back to the action for mounting the scope. The thing went haywire right from the start. Called Bill Shehane and asked what the problem was. He said I was messing up the harmonics for which we built the block for in the first place. Took it apart redid it with some riser blocks and back to a one whole rifle. i am no gunsmith but I found this out quick. If I had not have talked to Bill I might have scraped the thing.
    Hope this helps your decision.
    T
     
  9. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    Did you open the camera yet? I can't wait to see the rest, it sound awesome.

    edge.
     
  10. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Yea eddybo where are those pics??
     
  11. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    okay okay...been busy hunting and doing the christmas thing....first thing tomorrow ....well first thing after I get out of my box blind. I gotta admit that I am scared to get out in the reloading room with the camera I may go crazy posting pics in the firearms picture thread.
     
  12. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    Left my new cam in my stand...but my phone pics will give you an idea of the size of this thing.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    cool , what top did you use or is that one the he made?

    I'm expecting a new Barlein barrel in the next couple weeks then I'll be on my way up to Independance with a M-7 action. I just haven't decided what caliber. The barrel is a 243 ,28" 1-7.5 twist with the 5R rifleing , I'd like to shoot the 115 Bergers so I was leaning towards the 243 Ackley but hearing you brag on the 6mm-6.5x47 I was thinking that way , the cost of that brass is pretty steep and seems to be getting higher.

    What would you think eddybo , for a target gun for 600 and 1000yds the 6.5x47 case or the bigger 243 Ackley case? I'll be using Lapua brass either way.
     
  14. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    JJ,i understand what you're saying about the step up of around .105 or whatever it was. my point is, if the contact areas are even .0005 from what they should be, it's gonna induce stress.