Problemb with brass?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by winmag, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,
    Ive got some thing WEIRD going on here. Im loading for a .270WSM, using once fired Federal brass from my rifle. My book (Hornady 7th edition) says case length max is 2.100. Out of 260 cases only 28 of them passed the go-no-go guage set to 2.100. after being thru my F/L sizing-de-capping die (Redding) The rest averaged 2.112-2.119, so I culled them untill I get a case trimmer.
    Next using 3 of my 28 good cases I partially set a Hornady SST, 150gr bullet and pushed it up to the lands/rotate and repete 3 times each with same bullets. My c.o.l. was 2.094-2.905!!! So I backed it off .015 and set my seating die to 2.890. all fit in the mag. But the book says 2.785 MAX. Well, I loaded 25 rounds(all of wich fit in the mag) but the bolt closed a bit too hard on about 10 of them, so naturally I backed them all off another .005 now all 25 are set to 2.885. Guess what, still TIGHT. I measured each and every one of them both times and Im not varying by more than .003 ttl. Is this a safety issue? Im heading out to test loads tomorrow so Ill post results and WATCH FOR PRESSURE SIGNS! But Im confused as to why only some are closing tight. Go easy on me, Im still relitavely new to handloading, but I want to know what Im doing wrong here.
     
  2. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Im guessing my rifle has a long throat and I know wsm cartriges are a bit overbored, wich could account for the LONG c.o.l. but is what Im doing safe or am I gonna get myself into a world of ..........bad things?
     

  3. Moman

    Moman Well-Known Member

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    Where are they tight at? Are you sure it's not another part of your case that is tight in the chamber?

    Winmag, if I were you, I would get a case trimmer and some measuring equipment. I like the LNL Hornady/Stoney Point tools for measuring headspace and OAL. It sounds like you are measuring off of the tip of the bullet and not the ogive. Bullet lengths are going to vary within a lot and using the proper tool will allow you to use a much more accurate reading when going off of the ogive.
     
  4. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    It almost feels like its pushing hard on the bolt face. Could I have somehow messed up the bottom of the brass while de-capping?
    I do plan on getting a measuring tool that measures at the ''O-give'' right after I get a case trimmer. The calipers just dont cut it I guess. Still confused as to why if I backed off from.015 and an extra .005 I still had trouble.You wouldnt think the bullets would have .020 difference even measuring c.o.l. with calipers.
    I have 25 rounds loaded in groups of 5 starting at 56.5 grains of IMR-4831. for the first 5. then 57.5 gr on the next 5 and so on in 1 grain incriments on groups of 5 to 60.5gr on my last group.( .4 grains under book max),depending how the lightest 5 bullets shoot(pressure signs not accuracy) it may be a short day. If the bolt closes too hard on any, Ill probably just pass them up for safety reasons.
     
  5. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Two guesses

    1. You used an RCBS sizing die
    2. You did not run the sized brass through the rifle to see if it was properly sized.


    A significant number of RCBS sizing dies are just a touch too long and will leave the shoulder to far forward.

    Another possibility is:
    If the primers are not seated flush then it does the same thing as moving the shoulder forward.
     
  6. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

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    As Buffalo Bob said and +1 on that one. Sounds like your die did not bump the shoulder back far enough. Your COL probably was good if it fit in the magazine but your case probably needs the shoulder bumped back a bit.
     
  7. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Redding dies.
    Picked 3random brass and they all chambered with ease. Maybe just happened to grab the right 3.
    And Ill check my dies again when I get home. I flat out crushed one brass from having it set too low so in the proscess of adjusting it I heired on the cautious side. Maybe also a mistake.
    Thanks for the advise guys. Ill post results later today.
    BB good to see your still alive. I wondered if got you froze out. Hows the squirl sniping gion?
     
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    1. Check sized brass to see if it chambers first as has been said.

    Chances are that is your issue.

    You really need to use the Hornady tool or sinclair to confirm headspace if you do not have a "bump gauge" made for that caliber.

    2. Take one that is hard to chamber, pull it out and reseat the bullet another .050 in and retry to see if it chambers. That will confirm a seating depth issue versus brass if now chambers.

    BH
     
  9. John_from_Sudbury

    John_from_Sudbury Member

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    My brother-in-law's .270 WSM Vanguard was jamming some 140gr Nosler BT's into the rifling enough to pull bullets out of cases when seated at the book listed max magazine length (I forget what it is). Strange part was some of them jammed tight and some didn't seem to touch but there wasn't more than a couple thousandths variation in overall length at the tip. Perhaps a proper to-the-ogive measurement would have been more revealing.
     
  10. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    All loads worked fine. Didnt have any pressure signs at all. some closed tighter than others, but all ejected smooth as silk. The lightest loads shot way worse than the hotter ones. best 5 shot group was .924 including the flyer, w/o the flyer they(4 shots) measured.541 center of hole to center of hole
     
  11. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    I did push an empty brass witha partialy seated(smoked) bullet to the lands. Then ejected and repeated the proscess 3 times each with 3 ttl bullets and brass. Each time I got 2.905 or 2.904. so I backed it off .015 for 2.890 and had a tight fit on about 10 rounds out of 25, so I backed it off ANOTHER .005 for 2.885. Thats .020 ttl. OFF the lands and still10 tight ones. Even using calipers, 20 thousandths should more than make up for SLIGHTLY different o-gives in 1 lott of bullets.
    And yes I randomly grabbed 3 brass and checked Before I loaded them.
    Im leaning more toward not properly adjusting my re-sizing/de-capping die, as stated by someone earlier. Ill play some more with my die and see what I can do, and post my findings.
    Thank you for your replies and comments. They were a big help.
     
  12. cedarswamp1

    cedarswamp1 Active Member

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    Are you setting your dies to cam over at the top of the stroke? You should screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and screw the die in another 1/8 to 1/4 turn.
     
  13. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I'll add that that from what I've done with the 270 WSM I have found it to be a big brass mover first round, your going to need a trimmer with this one right out of the gate, get the Lee trimmer, it won't set you back more than 16-18 dollars. I trim every firing or I get trouble, like locking the bolt and flowing brass into the bolt head. With new brass I have to fire form Win and Norma brass before going full tilt or it will cause problems also, Rem is GTG. I'm going to set mine to min spec on a head space gauge to try to get the brass movement down more, nice thing about a Savage it'll only take me a few minutes.
    They shoot better going hotttttt!!:D
     
  14. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a custom rifle or factory? If it is a custom chamber, you may have too tight a neck unless you turn your brass. Just a possibility........Rich