Pretty sure it's a newb question..

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by tuxdad, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. tuxdad

    tuxdad Member

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    I understand the whole annealing process..

    My question is, when do you anneal your brass in your reloading process ??

    Is it after you've used the brass a few times and you just go about doing it, or do you set it up as part of your process during reloading.. If so when, or where in the process ?

    Tux
     
  2. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Although you will hear varying philosophies, I anneal after three firings. After the third firing, I put the brass in the tumbler and get it nice and clean. Then I anneal and after the brass dries, toss it back in the tumbler again. Then I go about my regular reloading process.
     

  3. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it is a newby question but that's why many of us are here. It's much harder to help 'experts'! :D

    When to anneal is one of those "this or that" questions, it's really not calibrated. And a LOT of people don't do it at all. I do, but for me it varies from 4 to 6 cycles depending on how bored I am! For sure, we should anneal the whole batch when necks start to split, OR toss 'em all out.

    Annealing itself is more art than science so there's a learning curve; the difference in brass temp between too little heat to too much heat isn't much. If the brass doesn't get hot enough we haven't accomplished anything, if it gets too hot we will destroy the elastic spring back and that hurts accuracy.
     
  4. tuxdad

    tuxdad Member

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    Well I just tried annealing my first batch of brass, for my 22 hornet.. It was a little bit hit and miss, with the walls being so thin.. I basically went with letting them blue once I got the distance right, but a few went to red in color around the mouth of the case..

    We'll see what happens when I resize them..

    Thanks for the help !!:)

    Tux
     
  5. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    You didnt hurt them. Ya went a tad too far but they will still work A-OK
     
  6. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Search youtube for brass annealing videos. Lots of good stuff there.
     
  7. madcharlie61

    madcharlie61 Member

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    NO it is science it is all science your not drawing a pretty picture on the brass you are sofening it with heat.

    look up templac. its a paint that disapers at a temp this wil help you keep the temp even.

    think of it as science and you will be in the right frame of mind to produce good results.

    art can go on the outside of the rifle not in the chamber.

    note: kinda pretentius post but ow well its my thoughts.
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    All templac is telling you is that you applied enough surface heat, and the 'art' in such an approach is still to know that too much heat wasn't applied. Still timing in it..

    We don't actually desire annealing, but stress relieving. Two completely different processes, at different temperatures.
    Stress relieving for cartridge brass is ~500deg(minutes) to ~800deg(seconds).
    ~950deg + (faint orange glow) = annealing. This is NEVER desired for reloading.

    A torch is way the hell hotter than this. So I would support the notion that successful 'annealing'(in our context), without a machine, is either luck or art.
    I'm not so gifted and have been lead dip stress relieving with calibrated temperature readings.
    But I may someday invest in a machine merely for the ease of it. The one I linked above is very tempting.
     
  9. tuxdad

    tuxdad Member

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    I'll be giving my first batch of "annealed" a try this weekend, if all goes well with reloading and weather...

    Thanks for all the help !!
     
  10. madcharlie61

    madcharlie61 Member

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    Good reply mikecr

    one thing i whould like to know is what is the differance between stress realeaving and anealing.

    you say its at diferant temps but what happens to the brass in the prosses?

    not testing you i just want to know.
     
  11. tuxdad

    tuxdad Member

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    Just an update on my first attempt after annealing my brass for my 22 hornet...

    So far after only loading 20 cases, I had 2 for which the necks folded.. From the looks of the coloring they were the ones that went to red while heating.. I'll be looking at the rest and see it I need to toss a few since I know there's a few more that were heated to red as well..

    Thanks again for the help..

    Tux
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    You're changing the grain structure of the alloy. I've never done it but I believe this can actually be seen with etching and measure under a microscope.

    I call 'partial annealing to specific balance' STRESS RELIEVING, which may not be a correct term. It's just easier to understand in application.
    We don't want to soften our brass from baseline(full anneal), or harden, but to take it's hardness back to a specific baseline.
     

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  13. madcharlie61

    madcharlie61 Member

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    Thats interesting reading. what happens to brass if you crash cool it.

    I know steel hardens but what happens to brass. Had this discution at work cos my superviser thought that us crash cooling braised joins was causing them to harden and crack. were i thought it didnt because the hardening of steel is how the carbon atoms are structured and copper and brass dont have much carbon in them.
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    We only quench in water to prevent further spread and time of heat (only if needed).
    This is to ensure we DON'T further affect our case hardness.

    It's important to keep the web area below 500f, or safety is compromised. So there are annealing procedures that call for standing a case in water, or quenching after heat.
    With machine annealing that's very controlled & predictable, quenching is not needed.

    I quench after a lead dip past the shoulders.