powder and bullet combos in a 223 bolt gun

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by JAnderson94, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. JAnderson94

    JAnderson94 Member

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    hi guys, new to reloading and the forum, google has popped this sight up numerous times when i searched reloading info.

    I have a Howa 1500 Varminter, all stock except a bedded bell and carlson stock. trigger is the decent two stage. thinking about lapping bolt lugs but haven't did it yet. 1-12 twist

    my question is i have a few different powders, imr 4320, h335, 4198, and a neighbor gave me some benchmark to try with 50 grain bullets.

    for bullets i have 36 and 50gr v grenades, Vmax 40's, TNT 50, Sierra 52 match king. It sounds like 55 is about the heaviest i want to go with my slow twist.

    CCI 400 primers, Federal brass small print

    What would you pick for a simple starting load and experiments. Im thinking the 50 or 52 with some benchmark. but i would prefer to use the other powder as i don't have very much benchmark. how far should i be off the lands about 30 thousandths? or should i be a little closer?

    also, what is the difference between a powder meant for lighter bullets, 40ish grain vs something like a 55-60
     

  2. 500mag_guy

    500mag_guy Well-Known Member

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    I'd use the h335 and the 52 match kings. Should been a pretty good combo with the 1:12 twist.

    Personally with my 223 bolt rifles using 52gr Hornady match. I load them to max mag length with extreme accuracy. Try it and see what works in your rig.

     

  3. JAnderson94

    JAnderson94 Member

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    I have heard a lot about the max mag length but never found a answer for this. So what do you mean by that?
     
  4. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    I'd double check the twist rate, as most Howa / Weatherbys I've seen were 14 twist. A 12 twist is a bonus. The .223 will shoot 55 grain bullets very well, and some 60 grain bullets. It's not the weight of the bullet anyway, but the ballistic coefficient. The twelve twist will handle up to about a .28. Yet something like the 53 grain V-Max would be about it. Try the V-Max in 50 and 55 grains.

    I think I own five .223 chambered rifles, and my goto powder is usually BLC2. But I also use H322, H335, and XM2015BR. Use mostly Federal primers, but have also used CCI's. Federals are better, and tend to show up in cold weather.

    I seat all my bullets within .004" of the lands, and usually within .002". My Remington has a 14 twist barrel chambered in .223 N.M. with a .246 neck. It likes the bullets to be with in .002" or less. But not jammed into the lands! My Browning has a 14 twist barrel and will shoot a .06" jump OK, but starts to do a lot better with bullets seated within .008" or less. You have to experiment here.
    gary
     
  5. JAnderson94

    JAnderson94 Member

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    I am pretty sure it is a 12 as it is the bull barrel and howa spec sheet shows 12 anyways. With that BC would 400 yards be about my max distance then?
     
  6. 500mag_guy

    500mag_guy Well-Known Member

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    Max magazine length is the maximum length of cartridge you can still feed in your magazine.

    As far as distance what are you doing with it?? It your shooting targets I've gotten 600+ yards from a 50gr nosler ballistic tip. With such a small bullet wind plays a huge roll in things but I have consistent hits with it at 600 yards when the wind allows.

     
  7. JAnderson94

    JAnderson94 Member

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    Just practice long range if possible at targets and as far as I can if I have a shy coyote so I figure about 400 yards...
     
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    a lot of what distance is usable is what you plan on doing with it. I use my Remington out to 350 yards on Coyotes, but wouldn't be afraid to try a 400 yard shot. Also the thought of a clean kill is important. I find 350 yards with a 55 grain bullet to be about it, but with a 12 twist barrel you might be able to shoot 60 grain bullets or better yet the 53 grain V-Max. My barrel is 20 inches long, and probably about two inches shorter than optimum. Still I see 3270fps with a 55 grain bullet, and it's not a max load. Still it's done at 400 yards when it comes to coyotes. If I could get 3400fps out of a 53 grain V-Max, that's where I would start.
    gary
     
  9. 1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man Well-Known Member

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    I tried 40gr Nosler, 50gr Sierra Blitz King, the winner is Hornadys 53gr V-Max Powder V 133 powder & Rem Small Rifle Bench Rest primers 3465 FPS groups in my rifle .77 inches groups averages at 200 yds.
     
  10. 1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man Well-Known Member

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    I tried 40gr Nosler, 50gr Sierra Blitz King, the winner is Hornadys 53gr V-Max Powder V 133 powder & Rem Small Rifle Bench Rest primers 3465 FPS groups in my rifle .77 inches groups averages at 200 yds.
     
  11. flashhole

    flashhole Well-Known Member

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    Please explain this comment. The BC is the figure of performance that bucks wind resistance and keeps the bullet going faster, longer, thus providing better trajectory. The bearing surface of the bullet is what influences stability related to barrel twist. Long bullets in slow twist barrels don't obtain adequate rotational velocity to stabilize. A pointy bullet will have the same stability as a stubby bullet for the same twist barrel but the BC will define down range performance.
     
  12. JAnderson94

    JAnderson94 Member

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    thank you for all the info guys, i have shot some factory loaded 40 grain v max and they seem promising in a handload, im going to go try some reduced loads today using trail boss and see what i can do.
     
  13. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    looking in the glossary of the Hornaday manual it states:
    * "an index of the manner in which a particular projectile decelerates in free flight. Expressed mathematically as c= WID2" ("D" squared)
    W= mass weight in pounds
    I = form factor or coefficient in form
    D= diameter squared

    Speer words it a little differently, but is essentially the same thing. The call it out as a ratio of the sectional density to the bullet form. In other words it's ability to overcome air resistance during flight.

    The above ratio also helps to fight wind drift. But in the end weight means very little in barrel selection as the ballistic coefficient determines the needed twist rate. A fine example of this is the Speer 52 grain HP is listed at a .225 B/C (#1035), while the 52 grain BTHP Match bullet (#1036) is listed at .253. The difference is purely shape.

    rotational speed is old (real old) school technology, and has been proven not to work all that well when figuring what twist rate is needed to stabilize a bullet. Walt Berger once told me that it took 179K rpm to stabilize a VLD. Looks good on paper, but will not always work. Later I changed the way I looked at his idea to 179K at to impact. A little better, but still not right. Then I read a very good article in Precision Shooting on bullet over stabilization. It brought in the center of gravity factor and what an error in C/G can cause. I learned that a .0001 error in C/G (very common and often worse) will cause 3/32" growth in groups at 100 yards, and over spinning them will increase this.
    gary