Newbie bullet seating question

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Rickyrebar, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. Rickyrebar

    Rickyrebar Active Member

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    Following the instructions from the Nosler reloading guide #6, on how to determine "my" rifles overall cartridge length... Using a fire formed (not re-sized) case, I have flattened the edge of the neck, using a permanent marker, colored the bullet & placed it into the neck of the case. Then installed into the chamber, closed the bolt (not firing the pin). Open the bolt & retrieve the case & bullet, realigning the bullet to where the ink has been scraped off by the case and taking a measurement... I do this 3 times and get an average length, then subtract .015, this is suppose to be "my" rifles seating depth.
    The concern I have, is taking the averaged dimension and subtracting .015, I have made a few dummy rounds (with full re-sized & trimmed cases), say... 6-8 varying over all cartridge lengths (in the process of getting the seating die cranked down the the targeted dimension I have a few that are a few thousands short). When I chamber "the one" and close the bolt, I experience some resistance (the bolt will close, but closes hard), out of curiosity I chambered the other shorter rounds and found that the resistance lessened as I traveled down the ladder.

    If it matters I am working with a .300 WSM, Nosler Ballistic Silver Tip bullets, once fired WIN nickel cases (trimmed to 2.090) and full re-sized.

    Per the manual overall cartridge length should be 2.860. The dimension for "my" rifle, I come up with using the method outlined in the manual and referenced above is 2.930 (this is the dimension that is hard to close the bolt on). As I travel down the ladder and get to a cartridge length of 2.880 (the shortest dummy round I have) I find just a slight bit of noticeable resistance when closing the bolt (without being comparing to a factory round, would not be noticeable).

    My factory rounds (WSM Ballistic Silver Tips) are in the neighborhood of 2.830, they all obviously chamber with no resistance.

    My question is, is a hard closing bolt a concern in a situation like this, or is it merely a product of a "custom fit" cartridge? Should I go with a length of cartridge that offers no bolt resistance? FYI, the longer cartridges cycle & eject through the rifle (WIN Model 70) just fine.
     
  2. Johnboy

    Johnboy Well-Known Member

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    try this.FL size a case.then seat a bullet long.then chamber it but not closeing the bolt.watch for the gap to close up while seatting the bullet a little closer each time you try to chamber it.and when you get to the point to where the bolt is lined up to be able to close you should be really close to your goal.now close the bolt with the dummy still in the chamber,and remove the dummy.now you can measure it to get the COAL of your chamber.NOTE if you are able to remove the fireing pin it will help out to feel the case being chambered.

    after I have done this.I will load up some with the powder of choice and weights with this length.then I'll go and test.and if the load seems to work out.I'll then play with the depth by moveing down in small increments say .010 at a time loading for 5 shot groups.and when one of the 5 shot groups shows me the best group I will load that again and try it again.and if that load gives the same or better there you have it.

    but most will tell you to get a gauge.but for me this has given me good results each time.and that this is the way a really good friend showed me.just hope it works out for you too.
     

  3. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    I had a very simmilar problemb a week ago, and posted a simmilar question ''problemb with brass?'' and heres what I found out.
    Win M-70 will chamber long loaded bullets with the safety in the middle position, with almost NO resistance. I put mine on ''fire'' and get resistance. feels like either the back of the luggs, or the face of the bolt. So I took some great advise I got in response to my question, and messed with my seating die.(reluctantly as 4 out of 5 grouped .541in and my flyer #5 still put my group at .924in- SUB M.O.A.) I set the die down almost another 1/2 turn,(Redding, F/L Die, .270wsm) and checked 12 empty brass in a row. All within .003 of book max case length once fired from my rifle. Very little to no resistance. Then I loaded up all 12 with Hornady SST 150gr.,and my variations range from 2.885 to 2.888 with calipers. Thats .020 off the lands for me, I started at .015off the lands, but figured I must be long because of the resistance.NOPE not so(book max c.o.l. says 2.785). Still about the same as before I messed with the die with 3 rounds offering more resistance than the other 9. RANDOM!!!!! Maybe its a Short mag thing or a Winchester thing. I dont know, but if mine doesnt shoot as good as it did last time you can bet Im gonna just settle for a stiff bolt and go right back to what I did before. Good luck:cool:
     
  4. Rickyrebar

    Rickyrebar Active Member

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    After fiddling around most of the day trying to make up my mind what is going on here, I am of the opinion at this point that it is the case diameter, rather than the cartridge overall length.
    I took all of my resized cases & chambered them, closing the bolt. They all have noticeable resistance when closing the bolt.
    So, is that normal?
     
  5. Johnboy

    Johnboy Well-Known Member

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    no its not.sounds to me you need to Full length your brass.and try chambering it again.and if you can remove the fireing pin this will help with feeling the resistance of the case if you are still haveing trouble chambering it.

    just how are you setting up your FL die? if you are FL your cases you shouldn't be getting this.or you load might be to hot caseing the case to swell and cause your problem.[this means its a pressure sign to back off a little on your charge]and how do your primers look,are they really flat?if so you need to drop the charge.
    just try running the die down a little more to see if the case will chamber.but keep in mine of the pressure signs I talked about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  6. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Just a wild guess, but was it by any chance Factory Federal ammo that you fired 1 time from your rifle, and are now trying to reload?
     
  7. Rickyrebar

    Rickyrebar Active Member

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    No, they are Win. nickel plated factory rounds.
     
  8. Rickyrebar

    Rickyrebar Active Member

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    Setting up my die per manufactures instructions... RCBS press & dies. I used a caliper to measure the diameter of some of the sticky cases, they all measure less than shown in the manual (.555" manual, .500" actual). So I doubt they are "swelling" due to as you suggested a "hot load", these are once fired "factory cases", so, unless Winchester is sending out hot loads from the factory... I have no idea. Another guy on a different forum said, he had the same problem with some WSM he suggested it was a common trait of that caliber.?
     
  9. Johnboy

    Johnboy Well-Known Member

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    well for me I haven't shoot a factory load in some time.but the last I did fire was remmy and it was hot.the primers flattened a good bit.

    but if your specs are good.the only thing that still might be it is the head spaceing.the shoulder area is still to long.and it only takes about .003 to make a case hard to chamber.but then again I am not in tune with this cal.and if some one else is haveing/had the same case problem then it may be OK.

    but it still puzzles me.have not yet been able to take a fired case and resize one that will not chamber without giveing resistance.hey I just thought of something.the dies for the both of you may be reamed to deep.meaning it want set back the shoulder to bumb it back.and if this is the case you can do two things tell the die maker what is going on or have a machinest to take about .010 off the bottom of the die and finish it back to the same way it looked at first.then ya'll/you should be able to set the shoulder back,and be able to chamber the case like a factory round.

    and there is one more thing I can suggest.go to 6mmbr.com and tell the guys their what is going on.tell them you have narrowed it down to the case and not the COAL.there are alot of those guys who shoot your cal.and they may be able to help you out better.beccause you shoudn't be getting this.it should resize and be OK.