new to black powder have some????????????

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by jeff 300, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. jeff 300

    jeff 300 Well-Known Member

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    i have been kicking around the idea of buying a black powder rifle. but i don't know any thing about them. so what rifle should i get to start hunting with. i have never been one to go half way. i would rather spend the money on the best out there to start with. i would want a scope on it so give me some ideas.
     
  2. Roll-Yur-Own

    Roll-Yur-Own Well-Known Member

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    I'd go with the savage ML10-II. You can use smokeless powder and avoid all the hassles of pyrodex and other black powder subs. What state are you in or do you plan to hunt? Some states do not allow smokeless.
     

  3. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    +1 on Smokeless!

    How serious are you going to shoot, and how much do you want to spend?

    The Savage is an excellent out of the box rifle and will sub MOA - under 2 MOA depending on how much time and effort you put in on load development. Some complain about the weight and if you hunt mountainous terrain then a tactical sling is in order OR a lighter smokeless like the NULA which comes in at a little more than 1/2 the weight and twice the price.....and more felt recoil /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    edge.
     
  4. Roll-Yur-Own

    Roll-Yur-Own Well-Known Member

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    Edge, that NULA is an awesome rifle. I didn't mention it because of the price tag. The Savage laminate is a good stock, but is heavy - 8.75 lbs. The plastic tupperware stock sucks, but the gun is a pound lighter at 7.75 lbs.

    For a first timer, I'd go with the savage smokeless. However, if you are not going to go smokeless, the I'd go with a knight or TC. Those 2 are the best smokepoles.
     
  5. jeff 300

    jeff 300 Well-Known Member

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    i live in hot,dry,flat a$$ texas. i don't mind spending the money i just want to it one time. as i don't think i will need more than one BP rifle. i'm would like to use it for out of state hunting. what is the difference betten the savage and a tc,night. i love all of the savage rifles i have(10 of them ). i don't know any thing about these rifles. thanks for the help
     
  6. Roll-Yur-Own

    Roll-Yur-Own Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, the knight an TC only shoot black powder or black powder subs (such as pyrodex). The Savage and the NULA can shoot either BP or smokeless powder. The main advantages to smokeless is that it is non-corrosive so you don't have to clean everytime you shoot it and you get better velocities for a flatter shooting rifle.

    I you are not shooting smokeless then the savage would be a waste since they do not shoot BP as good as knight or TC.

    The NULA is a great rifle, but is overkill. The savage will shoot 1" @ 100 yards the NULA can give you some bugholes but at 300 yard max shots it doesn't matter. You will also wait a long time for a NULA.

    Good Luck
     
  7. jeff 300

    jeff 300 Well-Known Member

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    savage mack a fine shooting rifle so i would think the savage ML would be a great way for me to go. what will a good set up cost me and where's the best place to look.
     
  8. MarkA

    MarkA Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    savage mack a fine shooting rifle so i would think the savage ML would be a great way for me to go. what will a good set up cost me and where's the best place to look.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have bought several now from Natchez http://www.natchezss.com/
    , good price and good service. If you want a thumbhole stock model go to Randy Wakeman's site, may take awhile to get a thumbhole tho!
    http://randywakeman.com/

    Sounds like some reading is in your future! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi
    http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/index.php
     
  9. 7mmSendaro

    7mmSendaro Well-Known Member

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    If you go the smokey route, Triple Seven is the ony way to fly. Clean-up is at least twice as fast as Pyrodex. All you need to clean is straight water....it really works!
     
  10. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    Better check your local laws on those smokeless guns....they are not legal in alot of places! Federal refuges, some states better check em before you buy one! Would suck to have a new M/L and not be able to use it where you wanna hunt!
     
  11. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    I know of no place where any of these rifles are not legal, at least where other in-lines are legal with a closed ignition!
    Certainly the Savage and NULA can use smoke too, for areas where smokeless powder is not allowed. I would rather have the ability to use smokeless if you go someplace where it is allowed.

    edge.
     
  12. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    Mississippi.....must use blackpowder or blackpowder substitute.....breech loaders may use smokeless powder ....but are not legal on Federal wildlife refuges...Pantherswamp, Hillside, Morgan Brake.....

    so there's one.....
     
  13. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    HUH?

    Are you implying that Savage's and NULA's are outlawed in Mississippi ? I don't think so!

    Smokeless may not be legal for hunting, but the rifle does not make a difference.

    IMO, if I lived in Mississippi, I would absolutely buy a smokeless capable rifle.

    1) In the future they may change the regulations forbidding smokeless;

    2) You can target shoot with smokeless and work up loads without the need for cleaning your rifle, ( IMO, the #1 reason that most folks don't shoot their muzzleloaders much );

    3) If you go hunting to different States, some will probably allow smokeless.

    Now there are some States that don't allow 209 primers or closed ignition, or mandate side or flint locked weapons, but most Knights and T/C's are not legal there either.
    I still know of NO PLACE where the Savage or NULA is not allowed, where a similarly designed Knight would be allowed!

    edge.
     
  14. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    All of my statements are for hunting ONLY! yea you can have em, shoot up the world if you like! but HUNTING is a different matter....Sorry! Didnt mean that they were all out illegal just talking about hunting issues!

    PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
    "Primitive firearms" for the purpose of hunting deer, are defined as single or double barreled muzzle-loading rifles of at least .38 caliber; single shot, breech loading, cartridge rifles (.38 caliber or larger) of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of those type rifles; and single or double-barreled muzzle-loading, shotguns with single ball or slug. All muzzle-loading Primitive Firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or #209 shotgun primers or flintlock ignition. Breech loading single shot rifles must have exposed hammers and use metallic cartridges. Cartridges may be loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. Scopes of any magnification are allowed on primitive weapons. Sidearms are not allowed during primitive weapon season.


    That should clear it up! and I dont see an issue with hunting it during the general gun season!