Necking down brass from one size to another - problems

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by ELZWizz68, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. ELZWizz68

    ELZWizz68 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Okay, got a question for those of you that neck down brass from one caliber to another: I have a 6.5 WSM, I bought the rifle used and it included a set of Redding dies, a Neck bushing die, a body die and a custom seater made with the chamber reamer. Part of the deal was 50 virgin cases of 270 WSM Winchester brass. Here's the issue - when necking down the brass, I noticed that some of the brass resisted the sizing operation more than others, and app. 5 cases out of the 50 were ruined by a crushed neck. I used Hornady One Shot lube for the brass, and I lubed them well. Matter of fact, about 25 cases in, I lubed them again, and put a dimple on two other cases (now tossing #6 & 7....). So, since this was my first time sizing down brass necks, I put it up to my inexperience - I was going from 277 to 264, so shouldn't be a problem, from what I have read/heard. I did go buy some Norma 270 WSM brass, all 50 cases, no problems. I noticed even a difference in the brass consistency from one to the other when I neck turned them, the Norma being easier and the brass coming off the neck turner in ribbons instead of flakes. Is this just a hard lot of brass from Winchester?? that's what I am thinking - or is the Norma just that much better? I am going to check and see what size bushing is in the die next, but I didn't think that this would be an issue. The groups I am shooting with the Winchester brass are nothing to write home about - 1.5 MOA. I also got several loaded rounds at the time I bought the gun... they are shooting .75 MOA. The gun has just been broken in really (160 rounds). So my worries - I am working up accuracy loads, and I am questioning the brass, I am going to try the Norma brass and see what happens this weekend, but wanted to see if anyone has any experience with either Winchester brass having this issue, or with any brass doing this. I know that I can load .5 MOA ammo, as I have a 223 doing this right now with select handloads, and I used to load for a 7-08 that I was shooting in the 3's with. I am wondering if I just screwed up 50 cases of brass though - some of the fliers in my 1.5 MOA groups(when looking at the ejected case) have neck mouths that are not even all the way across, just barely noticable - where the neck started to crush, and I didn't trim the brass enough to even out the mouth (DOH!) - I am sure that will cause a flier too (uneven neck tension/release). I will check my Norma brass, but I am sure that the mouths are fine on them, then shoot for groups and report back. Any comments or help is appreciated.

    EZ
     
  2. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,385
    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Winchester brass is real iffy and Norma is real soft.
    The new rig wouldnt happen to have a HS stock Lilja 30" flutted barrel and an AR tacticle brake on it would it?
    CJ
     

  3. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Messages:
    1,922
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Did you measure the runout on your loaded rounds?

    I bet it's pretty high on these necked down and then loaded virgin cases. I wouldn't worry too much about accuracy until you get it all once fired.
     
  4. littledevil2873

    littledevil2873 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    62
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    EZ Shooter, I neck down 7 RUM to 6.5 All I do is outside debur virgin cases, use a little imperial sizing wax and run through my sizer die. My sizer die is a 7 RUM Redding bushing die with the correct bushing. Virgin Rem cases have a slight lip that will not go past the bushing if I do not slightly debur. Hope this helps.
     
  5. ELZWizz68

    ELZWizz68 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    CJ,

    Nope that's not this rig. I have heard the same thing that you said regarding Winchester and Norma brass, thanks for verifying this though - looks like I can say the same thing from experience.

    EZ
     
  6. ELZWizz68

    ELZWizz68 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    LD,

    I will debur next time for sure! I think that this would have alleviated the issue on the Winchester brass....

    BJ,
    I haven't got a concentricity gauge (still!) spending all of my money on guns, LRF, scopes, right now.... but it is definetly making its way up the priority list! I will reload my fired winchster brass and double check it for accuracy. I will wait on the still virgin cases until I can scratch up for that Sinclair gauge...Thanks for the replies!

    EZ
     
  7. mindcrime

    mindcrime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    [ QUOTE ]
    I used Hornady One Shot lube for the brass, and I lubed them well.

    EZ

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Try some of THIS STUFF. It's heads and tails above the Hornady spray lube. I use it for making '06 brass to .35 Whelen, and .25-06 brass into 6mm-06 for my 6mm-06 Ackley, it is SLICK and only needs a touch up about every 10 rounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  8. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    308
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Sir: as the price of brass increases, the case forming losses are a costly thing to do; therfore, learn to anneal ( soften without temnpering ) before resizing, then anneal properly to re-harden . Loss rate= zero. Overbore
     
  9. keithcandler

    keithcandler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    The Lee Sizing wax that is white and comes in a tube is heads and tails better than Imperial sizing wax. Trick is to apply the lee wax and let the wax set up a couple of minutes, just like you do a car wax. The lee wax is so good that I lubricated my bullet jackets with the wax before running them through the forming dies.

    After using the Lee wax, you'll save your Imperial Wax and give it to someone that you don't like!
     
  10. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    163
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    another vote for the lee wax. amazing stuff