Minimum .308 Charges?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by IceSniper, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. IceSniper

    IceSniper Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a LR question but i though you guys could help me out. I want to load up some cheap .308s. for culling roos/wallabies of a night and offhand practice at 200y. Could someone tell me what the lowest SAFE charge for 150's and 168's using ADI AR2206 or AR2208(Vaget)? I'm looking for a MV of ~2000fps for the 150gr.

    Thanks
     
  2. duckinalaska

    duckinalaska Well-Known Member

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    Roger that icesniper,
    I gotcha covered.

    168 grain sierra matchkings
    38.7 grains of varget
    C.O.L 2.800
    fed 210M primers
    This load is perfectly safe and travel @ 2400 fps
    Hope this helps,
    Brandon
     

  3. IceSniper

    IceSniper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks duck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .
     
  4. duckinalaska

    duckinalaska Well-Known Member

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    Anytime partner.
     
  5. gravedigger

    gravedigger Well-Known Member

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    Try using IMR 4759, it works great for reduced loads. I use for silhouette all the time.
     
  6. Wild_Bill

    Wild_Bill Well-Known Member

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    Ok ice buy some 130gr Taipan projectiles and load them with 33gr AR2207 if you have to use AR2206 use 35gr as a start. If you go lower you could get in trouble with 06. AR2207 is much better and you could drop it down below 30gr if this is to fast. For roo's you dont want a 150gr projectile as they are to hard and do not expand. get some Taipans or Speer130gr HP Speer 125gr TNT's are also awsome or you can also use any plastic tipped bullet up to 125gr.

    Cheers Bill
    Australia
     
  7. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Try using IMR 4759, it works great for reduced loads. I use for silhouette all the time.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    ill second this comment!!!!
    I drive 90gr hornady xtps from my 300wm over 32gr of SR4759. Great powder! From that same rifle its driven everything from that 90gr bullet to 220gr SMKs. I also load reduced loads for cartridges ranging from 220Swift to 338-300wby mag with this powder.
     
  8. Wild_Bill

    Wild_Bill Well-Known Member

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    Hi I agree it is a great powder but not available here in Australia ARA2207 will work quite well and is good for reduced loads as long as there is over 1/2 a case full. Also AR2205 is an option i have just developed a load in 223 with a 75gr A MAx at 1600fps with 10gr in the 223. so try around 20gr AR2205 aswell if you like AR2205 is the same as H4227 and AR2207 is the same as H4198

    Cheers Bill
    Australia
     
  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Whatever powder you use, I'd be sure it's enough to have pressure high enough that the fired case doesn't end up with shorter headspace than before. Such cases may not be safe to fire again as they would have excessive headspace.

    If the fired primer's backed out any amount, that's evidence the charge weight wasn't enough to expand the case to fill the chamber. The firing pin drives the case hard against the chamber shoulder with enough force to set the case shoulder back .001-inch or more. Low pressure from reduced loads won't be enough to push the back fourth of the case body back against the bolt while the front part's pressed hard against the chamber wall. Reloading such cases once or twice may result in head separation. And that's a dangerous thing. I've used .308 Win. reduced loads with 38 grains of IMR4084 behind a 168 in new cases and the primer was backed out about .010-in but 40 grains was enough to keep it flush with the case head. These once fired cases had too much excessive headspace to reload even in a full-length sizing die as their shoulder wouldn't move forward enough.

    Many folks don't believe this will happen with rimless bottleneck cases but it does. Use a case headspace gage (Stoney Point, RCBS Precision Mic, others) to measure case headspace before priming a fired case, prime it then fire that primed empty case in the chamber. Measure that case headspace then repeat this. You'll see case headspace will get shorter each time a primer's popped in it.

    If you need to load greatly reduced powder charges to get the low velocity desired, you may only reload cases once to do that.
     
  10. IceSniper

    IceSniper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks alot guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif .

    Wild_Bill
    Thanks for the data. I was going to use the 150gr remmys because they're only $21/100, but now i think about it your right, i'd be better off to pay the extra $10 and buy 110g V-Maxs or TNTs. probably more fun too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . Anyone know which is more explosive?

    Bart B
    head space gauge is ordered, thanks for the heads up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Also i sent ADI an e-mail Friday night and got this back monday morning...
    [ QUOTE ]

    Thank you for your recent enquiry with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting Powders.

    Reduced loads can be achieved for the 308 Winchester using AR2206H where it is listed. Refer to the loads for AR2206H and use 60% of the maximum charge weight to achieve velocities of between 1500 and 2100ft/sec. Velocities will obviously vary for different projectile weights. This type of reloading should only be attempted using AR2206H, as it is the slowest powder that still provides uniform light up at reduced loads.

    As an example, we have 45.5gn AR2206H listed as maximum for the 150gn projectile so using 60% of this would mean a charge weight of 27.3gns.

    Please do not attempt to load below 60% of the listed maximum charge weight of AR2206H as light up problems may occur.

    Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our Website at www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide or our handloaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.

    We thankyou for using ADI Sporting Powders.

    Yours Sincerely
    ADI Technical Centre


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm going to see if i can get a can next week and i'll give it a try.
     
  11. Wild_Bill

    Wild_Bill Well-Known Member

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    Both the TNT's and V MAx'x are good but if you are trying to conserve money buy some Australian Made Taipan bullets the 130gr ones are just awsome. Also the Speer TNT 125gr is verry explosive as well as the 130gr hollow point. At reduced velocity the 110-115gr bullets will lose energy very fast and the 125-130's would be better. AR2206H is H4895 and slower than AR2206. Get AR2207 is is a much better powder for your application i have used it in a 16" barrel 308 with 130gr projectiles at 2500 and it is awsome as stated with the data i gave you. AR2207 is ised in 577-450's where it only occupy's 1/2 the powder space and is ignighted with a Magnum primer so use above 30gr and a mag primer with your chosen light projectile and you will have no trouble i would not go to AR2206H. AR2206 will work the same way ar 2206H because they are the same composition but AR2206H has more deterant coating to slow its burning rate a small amoutn to match the specifications of H4895 to be sold onto the US market.

    Cheers Bill
    Australia
     
  12. IceSniper

    IceSniper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a bunch Wild_bill, your knowledge of powders has been a great help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif . I was talking to my uncle today and he said the same thing you did about the Taipans, aparently i've been using them for years in his old Kar98 Mauser, just i never realised /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif . I have to ring Horsley park tommorrw for a bipod so i'll order a couple of boxes of 130's at the same time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif .
     
  13. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

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    Wild Bill was correct. 4895 is my do everything / one powder type for 223 and 308. The Hogdon instructions for Youth loads of 4895 "60% of normal loads" which is what I am loading now for grandson. Overbore
     
  14. RuffHewn

    RuffHewn Well-Known Member

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    Another low-recoil option is to load H4350. 47.0 gr with a 150 or 46.0 gr with a 168 is good for 2300-2400 fps. With military surplus brass you can go down 1 gr and the cases will still be filled to the point that detination will never be a concern.