Making your rifle into a "Smart Enough Rifle"

[Litehiker]

After reading many good reports about the Burris Eliminator III scope it appears that it may be the less expensive way to make a hunting rifle a "smart enough rifle" but not spend the huge cash required for a Tracking Point smart rifle.

The Eliminator III has a lot more going for it than its predecessors:

1. 1,500 meter ranging ability
2. inclinometer for high angle shot adjustment hold-under
3. windage hold "advise" in the numerical display
4. A VERY useful reticle design, good even if the battery fails.
5. lighted aiming points
6. decent glass

My main suggestions for improvement are that it needs a MIL/MIL turret/reticle combo and some more range for the elevation turret adjustment. Also an upgrade to the glass & coatings quality would be nice but not absolutely necessary.

After using my H59 reticle I can easily see the advantage of the similar Eliminator reticle for adjusting follow-up shots.lightbulb

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

The problem with a smart enough reticle is its not quite smart enough. It doesn't take into consideration temperature and elevation or pressure . Those make huge differences at long range.

 

[FEENIX]

The problem with a smart enough reticle is its not quite smart enough. It doesn't take into consideration temperature and elevation or pressure . Those make huge differences at long range.

+1! Also, in some states, they are "not" legal for hunting big game, i.e., unless it has change from 2 years ago, here in Montana it's OK only for varmint/coyote hunting.

 

[davkrat]

All my batteriless scopes are smart enough for me not the least bit interested in one of those tracking point set it and forget it rifles either.

 

[Litehiker]

Hmmm...

True, any BDC (ballistic drop compensator) reticle can lie to you out beyond 600 meters when things like altitude density and temperature begin to make a difference in your rifle's POI. Even a "smart" BDC scope like the Eliminator III doesn't have enough data for very long shots, just like our other "dumb" scopes.

Just as with a non-electronic scope like my Bushnell ERS 3.5-21 W/ H59 reticle, for very long shots you will need more environmental factors to be considered. That's when you whip out your handy-dandy Kestrel 4500 with its Applied Ballistics software and get station wind speed, pressure, coriolis effect, etc. figured in for a very good firing solution.

But consider that for hunting purposes the Eliminator III will do great for 90% of shots taken by hunters. Look more closely at its features and you'll find the Eliminator III can accept a significant amount of your own data. i.e. cartridge by brand and bullet weight, bullet BC, altitude (in 1,000 ft. increments) and angle of the shot with its built in inclinometer. And then, of course, exact distance with its LRF.
That's a lot of data for a "smart enough" scope.

 

[Broz]

Put a new Eliminator III on a few weeks ago for a friend and dialed in his rifle. They must be kidding about the 1500 meter thing. I never once got it to range past 850 yards. But since this rifle will only be use for hunting out to 600 yards it will work ok.

But have to also say the mounting system leaves much to be desired for anyone wanting to shoot true long range.

Jeff

 

[MontanaMarine]

Just spent a few days with my brother, him shooting Eliminator II, and III. He had them on a fancy 22 rimfire, and a 223 boltgun.

Not my cup of tea. As Jeff said, ranging seemed limited, and the furthest it seemed to calc a holdoff dot to was about 20-23 moa or so.

I'm sure they have their place, but I wasn't that impressed.

 

[Litehiker]

Other consumer reviews report good ranging with the Eliminator III even beyond 1,500 meters. Like my Bushnell 1 Mile ARC laser rangefinder binoculars I think it depends on atmospherics and target reflectivity. Sometimes with even the best LRFs you have to range two or three times to get a good number.

Civilian "Eye-safe" lasers aren't as powerful as military LRFs but that said there are "Eye-safe" LRFs available to us that range well past 2,000 meters IF you want to pay the price.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I've never been a fan of letting technology take the place of "know how"...electronics are such weak, fragile things...

 

[Broz]

Other consumer reviews report good ranging with the Eliminator III even beyond 1,500 meters. Like my Bushnell 1 Mile ARC laser rangefinder binoculars I think it depends on atmospherics and target reflectivity

I am fully aware of conditions and their effects on LRF's. I tested this El III in morning, evening and mid day light. As well as on rocks , rock walls, trees and even at my personal range where a target has a couple license plates screwed to the back stop for when we are using inadequate LRF's at distance. Like I said it never got past 850 yards. Maybe I got a bad one.

I did not let it bother me much because I am of the opinion that if changing environmental conditions are not part of the shooting solution, then it needs to be kept to a distance where these condition changes will not take you out of a kill zone. For this type of solution, or a ballistic turret I choose to keep them at 700 or less.

I draw my opinions from the LRF's I have owned or field tested.

That list includes owned:

5 Swarovski's
at least 4 Leica CRF 1200's
1 Zeiss mono PRF
3 Leica CRF 1600's
1 G7 BR2
a couple Newcon's
5 Vectronix PLRF10's

And have also field tested the Vectronix Terripin, a Vortex, a few Leupolds, Bushnell's and probably some others I choose to forget. So I don't feel I am a stranger to how a good RF works for what we need them to do while long range hunting.

Another point of the EL III besides the weak mounting system, I was less than impressed with was the reticle size and look. I found it very hard to shoot 100 yard groups with. The reticle and the fine lines the illuminated dot travels on covers any relatively small aim points on paper. So I found myself turning on the illuminated dot to help. This helped but at best this is a poor scope set up for load work up or shooting tight groups. Also hard the get a precise zero at 100 as per the instructions due to target blockage from the reticle.

So, I have to agree with MontanaMarine here. Probably ok for limited uses and certain situations. But definitely not my cup of tea and will not be finding a home in my gun safe. At least not for a true long range rig.

Jeff

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I have used the Elim 3 on several occasions and have 2 in my safe as we speak. You can adjust for altitude in your settings. Temp everything can be adjusted for. It just has to be done when programming it for the hunt. It is not easily changed in the field. I have ranged almost to 1500 yds and it is quite reliable. It is far superior to the Swarovski laser scope that originally came out.

As for those that do not believe in this technology for hunting and not wanting to use what is available today for advancement to make the sport better then lets go back a little. Lets not do mill dots, no kestrels, No apps, no zero stop scopes, lets stay with the original 4x scopes.. Oh no lets get rid of scopes, ya lets not advance. Lets get rid of smokeless powder, in fact lets go back to black powder. Maybe to just old fashioned stones! That will make it more sporting.

I am surprised that Jeff has the out look on this the way he does. We actually met MANY times before. You were "shooting" the 1320 with my son as I was "smithing" the "gun". Sonny Leonard was in our pit stuffing all 8 barrels. We even used laser rangefinders in those days to make sure all was equal.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

OK...

I said "electronics"...were such weak and fragile things...and they are.

To clarify...why put all that into the scope when it can be a just as useful in a separate unit that can fail and not ruin a hunt? May shorten the range a bit if it goes down...but the hunt can continue.

LRF's are fine and dandy...I didn't have one until last year, bought a "cheap" one (Bushnell 1300 ARC)...the readout sucks, but it does serve its purpose and gives accurate ranges. I tested it extensively on known ranges...which is how I hunted before owning one...at known ranges...fields I have been shooting for over 30 years.

I didn't mean to sound so "anti-technology"...but I am firm in my position of not becoming solely dependent on it...for anything.

Have the tools, know how to use them, and use them well...but never get in a position where you are useless without them.

Thats all I meant...

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Also...I'm not the ELR shooter that many here are...likely never will be (the toys are above my pay grade)...I'm pretty well versed to about 1,200 yards...after that...as a truck driver with a family, I can't afford the equipment.

EDIT: I did come REAL close to buying that 7mm Allen Mag. that is for sale on here last night....real close...but to do that I would have had to cancel my 280 Ackley that I already have "in process"....so I "almost" stepped up to the plate, lol.