M14 / M1A accuracy

[Skinny Shooter]

Was wondering if anyone knows about accurizing these rifles.
In one of the Chandler brothers DFA books they state that the Army has had a rough time keeping the M14 "tuned"...
Is this rifle type really that difficult to accurize?
I don't own an M1A yet but wouldn't mind having a Squad Scout set-up.
Thanks.

 

[chris matthews]

Yes, they are a pain to accurize and the Chandler book is right- they don't keep it.
They have the hardest recoil pulse of any gas gun and destroy their bedding in a short amount of time.
By design they were made to drag through the mud and sling lead downrange, not for precision work.

 

[Skinny Shooter]

Thanks Chris.

 

[speedbump]

Agreed. When they're on, they're great, but you'd better have an armorer nearby. That's one of the reasons the big service teams went with M-16s in recent years - they're FAR less maintenance intensive than a '14 - plus the .223s are more forgiving in rapid fire.

 

[DwRuger]

wasnt one of the problems they had back then was the type of powder they used thats what tore up the inside. i may be wrong

 

[Mysticplayer]

Sorry guys, I disagree. The M1A/M305 can be set up to shoot MOA or better quite easily and with the beddings available, last for 1000 to 3000rds depending on how you maintain the rifle.

Up in Canada, the Norinco M305 rules the M1A roost because it is so much cheaper. Very well made and usually has a nice cut chamber.

I do accurizing on these rifles which includes trigger tuning, bedding, gas system accurizing and load development.

I can say that my accurized M305's will shoot 1 1/2 MOA or better with handloads. Most are in the MOA range. The Norincos can do this without changing the barrels in most cases.

Was shooting clay pigieons at 575yds on the weekend. Hit a few and dusted many more so can guage accuracy to be in the 1 1/2MOA range at that distance. Shot out to 750yds at a boulder about 2 ft wide by 1 ft high. Center of mass hits on a reg basis.

They aren't BR rifles but for a battle rifle, they can be made to be very accurate.

Jerry

 

[speedbump]

Jerry,

I agree that they "can" be made to shoot, but you said it yourself when you gave the life expectancy at "1,000-3,000" rounds before re-tuning. If your average to competent highpower shooter only got 1-3K from a tuned AR-15 variant, the 'smith would be out of business as soon as word of his misdeeds spread!

I've carried both, competed with both, and pushed them both hard. I have an affinity for the '14 (something about that steel-on-steel PINGGGGGG when the hammer drops in dry-fire) and fired it from 200 out to 1,000 yards with 155s & 175s. But for reliability, dependability, & ease of MAINTENANCE the '15 gets the nod.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Speedbump, as always, it's about application. The 223 has its limitations for LR knockdown power. For punching paper in a service rifle class, the best right now. For shooting deer at 400yds, forget it.

For us up north, the M305 is about 1/3 the cost to prep compared to an US built AR. I like the bigger case and enjoy plinking with intent.

I guess the M305/M1A could be the '69 Camaros of the shooting world and the AR a new Honda sport compact. Different folks, different strokes.

Jerry

 

[cobra]

I have a Springfield M1A with a stainless barrel and composite stock. I haven't done any accuarizing with it and it will hold 1 MOA off the bench very consistently. I have on it smith enterprises bases and rings and a Leupold 3.5/10 M3. I have shot it with iron sights in service rifle competition and if I did my job it never let me down. Never shot it past 600 but it went .75 MOA at 100 with 168 SMKs and Varget. My rifle seems to prefer the lighter bullets but the SMK shoots very well in it. I don't shoot very hot loads through it and that may have something to do with keeping the gun accurate.

 

[speedbump]

Jerry,

Good analogy with the '69 Camaro!

And you're right, it is all about the application. Glad we still have a choice or two in the world....

 

[m14dan]

I totaly disagree with the negative posts. The M-14 is probably the MOST reliable weapon this country has ever fielded. I carried a standard and a sniper version through all kinds of stuff in the service and never had a problem and I now have a poly receiver I built into a M-21 type. Bedded, heavy barrel and all. It is so reliably I would rather drag it's 20 pounds out of the cabinet every weekend to hunt with than any of the lightweights. I use steel bed for bedding. The army DOES not! I use match conditioning procedures used by the Navy and Marine Corps. The army does not! I clean my weapon the correct and thourough way like the Navy and marines, The army does not!
I was Navy and Army for 15 years so yes I am qualified to comment on their ways. The army may have a good match rifle team but they don't know squat about the M14. They couldn't keep one shooting straight any more than my wife could.
Mine can put 5 in 1 hole easily at 100 yards and I know if I see a critter I want to drop anywhere out to 1000 yards it's mine as long as the wind isn't blowing to ungodly hard. I limit my game animal hunting to 6-800 but an varmints they better not get in my crosshairs.
Before anyone goes trashing M-14's just consider who's building them now. One company who's idea of quality control is seriously lacking who puts out the most. A very few comparitively by excellent gunsmiths wich bring top dollar so that doesn't help their reputation any either. Most of them out there suffer from lack of knowlege by the owners in proper maintenance and feeding so sure they are gonna have not so good things to say about them.
It's not the gun that deserves the bad rep.

[ 05-19-2004: Message edited by: m14dan ]

 

[Mysticplayer]

M14Dan, very well said.

Was out plinking at clay pigieons last weekend at 575yds. Hit a few, came close on many more. I would say that many tactical/sniper/custom rifles would shoot no better at that range.

AT 750yds, was plinking on a boulder 2 ft wide and about 1 ft high. Center of mass hits. Wow, what more could you want from a tuned battle rifle.

Jerry

The M1A/M305 is very accurate when tuned properly and feed what it likes. It is just like the 1911. The orig WWI pistol was at best a 25 yd gun to hit a large target. The stuff that is out shooting today is simply no comparison for function and accuracy.

Jerry

 

[GBA1776]

i know that the military at the springfield armory takes a standard m4 and replaces the barrel with a stainless steel one and those things are tack drivers
also using molybdenum oil not powder, again dont use powder because it decreases muzzel velocity and makes the barrel hard to clean because you can run a million patches through it and they will still come out black, ok maybe not a million but you get it. the moly oil saves barrels increases velocity and you can use it on one trip and not on the next with moly powder you may have trouble if you run out of powder at the range your trip is over, this is what ive read and heard, im sure some people love moly powder snipers use to have it as a standard. but from what i can tell it has been replaced by moly oil. but a stainless barrel will make an m4 or ar15 or whatever ar style brand you may have better . i belive with a new stainless barrel and moly oil you can use it far beyond the 3,000 round mark gun)btw this website and forum kicks ***

 

[436]

I have an out of the box Springfield service match model; it just plain shoot! Sub moa {3 rounds} is the norm at 100 yards.
436