looking to borrow or rent eletronic dog collar

Discussion in 'Trade, Freebie and Loan' started by clos90009, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. clos90009

    clos90009 Well-Known Member

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    Well i finally gave in (caved in) and let my wife have a dog.
    well what we have is a Blue Heeler, and i want to try to train him out of
    jumping on people, and chasing our two cats around the house and to learn the command NO. he sort of has it figured out but would like the extra emphasis.


    thanks
    clos
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Clos,

    You done real bad.

    The most useless animal in the entire universe is the blue healer.

    I'd recommend the following:

    Shoot the dog.

    Get a shock collar for the wife.

    I'd send you mine but my wife still needs it, really. Getting it on her was a real fight but once around her neck just a touch of the button keeps it there.

    It sure is a lot quieter around here.

    Gee wizz, a blue healer:rolleyes: If you'd a got a Border Collie you wouldn't need the collar and your points with your wife, neighbors and visitors would go way up.

    PS: This isn't intended to be a flame, I just dislike healers.gun)

    The truth is that the use of the collar is for reinforcement not training. It won't work the way you wish to use it.

    To cure jumping up on people.

    Start with you.
    When it puts it's front paws on your leg, press his rear paws with your toes. Don't stomp them, cause it'll hurt. Simultaneously give a command, like NO! or Down!

    Healers are bone heads but will catch on quickly.

    Teach your wife to do the same thing.

    As for stopping chasing cats. That's a waste of time. Dogs are for catching cats. Hard to tell I dislike cats more than I dislike healers, huh?

    When you mean NO mean NO, and put a bit of a growl in your voice.

    NO can even be his name stated strongly with a bit of a growl in your voice.

    If he begins to kind of ignore you or snear, as is kind of sulking away and turning his head to look back with one eya and seems to be saying "Just wait until you're not around", shoot it in the A$$ with a BB gun. When the wife isn't around that is.;)

    I've trained bunches of stock dogs including two healers (before I quit taking them in_. The foot on the toes works and they begin to under stand "no". However, the farther they are from you, the deafer they get. Thus the BB Gun. Lots less expenisive than a collar and with their poor trajectory its good LRH practice.;)
     

  3. dlyon16

    dlyon16 Well-Known Member

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    You need a check cord and a good book on dog training. Check lion country supply's website. Anything you can do with the collar you can do with the rope. Most people just screw the dog up worse with a collar.
     
  4. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    What dlyon said to.

    Their hearing will go as far as the rope.;)

    The idea is to be able to reinforce the command in a strict/firm but pleasant way. Consistency is key.
     
  5. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    The above all assumes you are smarter than the dog. ;)

    In my case, I'm in trouble ( 3/4 Jack Russell Terrier, 1/4 Beagle ), if he had opposable thumbs, we'd all be in trouble!


    AJ
     
  6. esshup

    esshup Well-Known Member

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    What they said! The other thing is to make sure that he/she understands that they HAVE to listen to your FIRST command. In other words, you don't have to say "no" a couple of times for them to finally listen to you. Once should be enough.

    Same for whatever command you give them for sit, come here, etc.

    In the Springer field dog world, the come here command is "here", and the command to sit is "hup". The way to get the dog to sit ASAP is have it on a short leash on one side of you, with a switch in your other hand. When you tell the dog to sit, pull up on the lead and if they don't sit asap, give them a swat on the rear with the switch - the switch is behind you, across your back and their head is in front of you so they can't see it, nor can they see you doing the switching. They will get the idea pretty quick!

    My second English Springer Spaniel was a field trial wash-out that didn't sit when the bird flushed, and I tried like he** to get her broke of that habit. The problem was she was too smart for her own good. In training, where we could reinforce the commands, she would be on her best behavior. But in a trial where you couldn't reinforce the commands, she knew she could get away with not hupping when the bird flushed. But she made the best hunter that you ever saw!

    Therefore my handle - esshup. :D

    If you do get an e-collar, don't use it right away. Have the dog wear it so it doesn't associate the collar to the correction or they will be collar shy. Also, only have the collar turned up enough so the dog barely notices the correction. Think of it like someone tapping you on the shoulder to get your attention, not punishment.

    Everybody in the family has to get with the training program or the dog will think it can dominate one of the family members.

    I could go on and on, but get a good training book and start reading ASAP.
     
  7. clos90009

    clos90009 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you there. I really dont want nothing to do with the damn dog, but i guess i must trun lemons into lemmonade.
     
  8. mattj

    mattj Well-Known Member

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    clos90009,

    An e-collar is not what you need for your situation, and you're likely to do more harm with it than good. You may cure him from jumping up on people, but your just as likely to cause him to be fearful, neurotic, etc. around you and/or other people.

    Dogs jump up on people because they get a reward from it -- attention, a sniffing or a licking of your face, etc. The way to get them to stop is to never allow them to get reward from it. When you or your wife get home, COMPLETELY IGNORE the dog no matter what it does until it behaves in a way that you consider acceptable -- and by completely ignore, I mean, don't even look at him. When he jumps up, turn your back before he gets there. Like a previous poster said, the key here is consistency. If you give the dog what he wants for his bad behavior ONE time, you're canceling out maybe 20 times (just a random number there, but you get the point) of doing the right thing and NOT rewarding him for his undesirable behavior. If you have visitors, either put the dog away so that he cannot get rewarded from an un-trained person who unwittingly "rewards" him for jumping up (by letting him do it and getting what he wants) -- or, if the person is a good sport, ask them to help train your dog by completely ignoring him until you tell them it is okay to pay attention to him.

    What you want to do is to teach the dog a behavior to default to as an alternative to jumping up on people -- such as sitting or something.

    Instead of a e-collar, get a training/animal behavior book by somebody versed in modern animal behavior science (just NOT that hack Cesar Millan) -- and start recognizing when YOU are in inadvertently doing things that reinforce the dog's negative behaviors.

    90% of training a dog is training yourself to be consistent with your dog and creating an environment in your home where you are teaching your dog TO do the things you want it to do -- if you come at it from a perspective of teaching your dog NOT to do things, you'll have a much much harder time...

    So teach your dog TO sit to greet people, not NOT to jump up...
    TO go outside to do its thing, not NOT to piss on the furniture...


    I'll stop preaching here --- it's just my wife does behavioral neuroscience, and we are both very interested in animal training and stuff. And it just drives us nuts to watch people repeatedly reinforce bad behavior from their animals, and then resort to applying punishments for the behaviors we just watched them unwittingly reinforce. Poor animals don't know what the hell they are supposed to do, and neither the owners or the animals benefit from that.

    Training your dog in the field may be a different manner -- but for the most part in a domestic environment, if you find yourself punishing your dog, you should be asking yourself where you already messed up as the dog's trainer (and by trainer, I mean "person living with the dog" -- because every single interaction with your dog is TRAINING it, whether you mean it to be or not). Your household routine with the dog should be structured that it does not get rewarded for undesirable behavior, and does get rewarded for positive behavior (ie, following the routine).

    Okay, I'm really stopping now. Sorry for preaching.

    -Matt
     
  9. clos90009

    clos90009 Well-Known Member

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    no matt you are not preaching. I am just not a pet person and i know that i am not a pet person. My wife thinks she is, and when this winter comes to colorado and she has to take the dog out in the wee hrs of the morning and she is freezing her ta tas off, she will and i know she will want to get rid of the dog. (Poor dog) she starts stuff like this all the time and never follows up. Me on the other hand KNOW that i am not a Pet person. dont want to give up on the dog just cuz it is the easy thing to do. I would bet 100#s of fiftys that i will be the one out there this winter.
     
  10. mattj

    mattj Well-Known Member

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    I can sympathize with you there man -- I love my dogs (real dogs...), but we are dog-sitting this fuzz ball of a white rat that they call a dog for one of my wife's co-workers... NOT my idea.

    We've actually made remarkable progress with the thing in a couple weeks considering how much the owners have screwed it up -- but this doggy rehab stuff is hard (and often frustrating) work, and we don't get a damn thing from it (except my wife enjoys the idea of it I guess).

    The worse thing is that as soon as it goes home, they will completely undo all the progress we have made by going back to their old habits with the dog, so really all this is for nothing but my wife's amusement.

    Ugh.
     
  11. clos90009

    clos90009 Well-Known Member

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    problem solved, gave the pup to my sister's X who is a dog person.
    told him i would visit in about 6 mo to see the progress with the dog.
    Wife is pissed off to no end that i got rid of it. so now i am on the dog house. but at least i dont have to deal with a dog.
     
  12. mattj

    mattj Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad it worked out for you. Sounds like the best thing for the dog as well.
     
  13. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    when the dog jumps up its hard to step on his back toes. Instead, catch him in the sternum with your knee. Not hard, just lift the knee and he'll do the work himself. You don't have to say a word and it only takes a few days.

    for cats, get the dog used to being attached to a long stretchy clothesline. Let him tow it around the yard. When the cat shows up and the dog takes off, stomp the line and he'll get a yank. Again, don't say a word - he'll catch on and associate the cat with the yank.

    Anything you can do with a collar you can do with the stretchy clothesline.

    Lastly, the dog NEVER wins a challenge. You (& your wife) are the boss & the pack leader. The dog must submit to the pack leader....
     
  14. clos90009

    clos90009 Well-Known Member

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    getting daily updated via my sister. sister's X boyfriend thinks he won the lotto with this dog. The heeler is papered and will be a great dog for him. so we all won in this one, except for my wife, who was sad and mad. but he said we can visit anytime we like,