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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Muzzleloader Hunting
Long range muzzleloader for a noob
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<blockquote data-quote="ENCORE" data-source="post: 1205628" data-attributes="member: 33046"><p>Changing the variables, like comparing a lit cigarette and placing it to two different propellants, is exactly that. You changed the variables, not the force. However, the law of physics still apply with force and or velocity. If you take two different charges and they're both sending a projectile at 2,300fps at the muzzle and the projectiles weigh 300grs, the velocity and weight are identical, right? That means that there's an equal and opposite force that is also identical. Physics.</p><p>What may feel different is the perceived recoil. If you're shooting identical charges from a 6# rifle compared to a 10# rifle, the velocity (2,300fps) and bullet weight (300grs) are identical, so is force, equal and opposite. Which rifle will seem like it recoils harder? There is less weight in the 6# rifle to help dissipate the equal and opposite force, therefore recoil will be perceived as harder than that of the 10# rifle. Its why heavier recoiling rifles are heavier. Use the same IDENTICAL rifle, say the 10# rifle. In this case, lets use the RU or UF rifles. Either one. If you shoot 180grs of T7 with a velocity of 2,300fps using a 300gr bullet, it will have the same recoil when shooting a heavy charge of BH209 (its approximately 134grs V) at 2,300fps and the same bullet. Yes the burn rates are different, yet the velocity and projectile weight are the same, thus both propellants will still have equal and opposite forces. Its also why the guys are building smokeless muzzleloaders at 14# and adding muzzle brakes.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying always, but most production muzzleloaders that are double loaded end up with a bulged or ringed barrel. They rarely explode like a muzzleloader shooting smokeless propellant. Smokeless propellant double loads can open up a barrel as shown in the photo. That's just one of the photos I have, where someone shooting smokeless propellant had a barrel rupture. All it takes is one screw up and the results can be catastrophic.</p><p></p><p>The RU or UF rifles are VERY capable rifles at 300yds and out to 400yds for whitetail and certainly capable of 300yds for elk, retaining approximately 1,450fps and 1,350fpe w/300gr bullets. That's near what many traditional shooters have at 75 - 100yds hunting elk with a round ball. Now I'm not recommending that ANYONE should be taking 300 or 400yd shots at whitetail, or elk for that matter. Most shooters are not even close to being capable of taking a hunting shot at those ranges. As you indicated, many are pleased with 3" or 4" groups at 100yds. However, there are shooters who can easily make 300yd shots, but they also shoot hundreds of rounds each year at those ranges. With the right person pulling the trigger and developing the load, there's really no reason ANY NEW production muzzleloader can't be capable of MOA at 200yds.</p><p></p><p>For the record, I've reloaded CF cartridges since the very early 70's. I still load, although not very often, for both the .450 Bushmaster and 30-06. I do though shoot almost four (4) cases of propellant each year through a muzzleloader, and a couple years over 2,000 rounds sent down range. No, I do not own a smokeless muzzleloader, as there's no need to own one. Its also not legal to use during our muzzleloader season. I have no need to have one, just to say I have one. For what I would spend on building a smokeless muzzleloader, I can purchase a lot of propellant and bullets for something that's actually legal to use during the muzzleloading season.</p><p></p><p>I've pretty much expressed my opinion on a post that wasn't started by me. So I'll refrain from further opinions here. What ever the OP decides, I wish him great luck. Muzzleloading and accurate shooting, especially long range, is addicting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ENCORE, post: 1205628, member: 33046"] Changing the variables, like comparing a lit cigarette and placing it to two different propellants, is exactly that. You changed the variables, not the force. However, the law of physics still apply with force and or velocity. If you take two different charges and they're both sending a projectile at 2,300fps at the muzzle and the projectiles weigh 300grs, the velocity and weight are identical, right? That means that there's an equal and opposite force that is also identical. Physics. What may feel different is the perceived recoil. If you're shooting identical charges from a 6# rifle compared to a 10# rifle, the velocity (2,300fps) and bullet weight (300grs) are identical, so is force, equal and opposite. Which rifle will seem like it recoils harder? There is less weight in the 6# rifle to help dissipate the equal and opposite force, therefore recoil will be perceived as harder than that of the 10# rifle. Its why heavier recoiling rifles are heavier. Use the same IDENTICAL rifle, say the 10# rifle. In this case, lets use the RU or UF rifles. Either one. If you shoot 180grs of T7 with a velocity of 2,300fps using a 300gr bullet, it will have the same recoil when shooting a heavy charge of BH209 (its approximately 134grs V) at 2,300fps and the same bullet. Yes the burn rates are different, yet the velocity and projectile weight are the same, thus both propellants will still have equal and opposite forces. Its also why the guys are building smokeless muzzleloaders at 14# and adding muzzle brakes. I'm not saying always, but most production muzzleloaders that are double loaded end up with a bulged or ringed barrel. They rarely explode like a muzzleloader shooting smokeless propellant. Smokeless propellant double loads can open up a barrel as shown in the photo. That's just one of the photos I have, where someone shooting smokeless propellant had a barrel rupture. All it takes is one screw up and the results can be catastrophic. The RU or UF rifles are VERY capable rifles at 300yds and out to 400yds for whitetail and certainly capable of 300yds for elk, retaining approximately 1,450fps and 1,350fpe w/300gr bullets. That's near what many traditional shooters have at 75 - 100yds hunting elk with a round ball. Now I'm not recommending that ANYONE should be taking 300 or 400yd shots at whitetail, or elk for that matter. Most shooters are not even close to being capable of taking a hunting shot at those ranges. As you indicated, many are pleased with 3" or 4" groups at 100yds. However, there are shooters who can easily make 300yd shots, but they also shoot hundreds of rounds each year at those ranges. With the right person pulling the trigger and developing the load, there's really no reason ANY NEW production muzzleloader can't be capable of MOA at 200yds. For the record, I've reloaded CF cartridges since the very early 70's. I still load, although not very often, for both the .450 Bushmaster and 30-06. I do though shoot almost four (4) cases of propellant each year through a muzzleloader, and a couple years over 2,000 rounds sent down range. No, I do not own a smokeless muzzleloader, as there's no need to own one. Its also not legal to use during our muzzleloader season. I have no need to have one, just to say I have one. For what I would spend on building a smokeless muzzleloader, I can purchase a lot of propellant and bullets for something that's actually legal to use during the muzzleloading season. I've pretty much expressed my opinion on a post that wasn't started by me. So I'll refrain from further opinions here. What ever the OP decides, I wish him great luck. Muzzleloading and accurate shooting, especially long range, is addicting. [/QUOTE]
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Long range muzzleloader for a noob
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