Long range bullet for 308win

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by cpttango30, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Member

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    Ok I was looking for some bullets to order and try my hand at some f-class shooting in the near future. While looking I went to Burger bullets. Here is where I am getting confunded they say you can shoot their 180gr and 190gr bullets in a 12 twist barrel. All others I have talked to (Gunsmith, F-class shooters ect...) all say the largest you can go with a 308 win is 175gr for a 12 twist barrel.

    Is anyone shooting the 180gr or 190gr bergers in a 12 twist on here of does anyone know anybody shooting them?
     
  2. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Well-Known Member

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    Some 180 bullets work better than others in a 1 in 12" twist.

    190's are better left to the 1 in 10" and 1 in 11.25" twists.

    Barrel length (velocity) matters too...while the 180's may do OK from a 24 inch 1 in 12 twist barrel at 2600+ fps...they will not do so good from a 20" barrel at 2500 fps.
     

  3. 358sta

    358sta Well-Known Member

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    I've been trying the Berger 185 gr. VLD in my 308 WIN over the last few months with good success (0.5" - 0.75" 5 shot groups). I have a 22" barrel and 1-12" twist. My load velocities have ranged from a low of 2336 fps to a high of 2607 fps. The most accurate loads were shooting around 2500 fps. These velocities are 5 shot averages - not just one shot. I've found the best two powders to be Norma 204 and Viht 160. The 160 is right at the edge of being overly compressed and pushing the bullet back out. I don't have that issue with the 204 - seems its a finer powder even though it is a stick powder as well. At 100 yards in warm (60-75 F) conditions, I haven't seen any issues with stabilizing of the bullet. But again, that's at 100 yards and at my high altitude (5500 ft). Things could change with different conditions. A 1-12" is on the edge of stability for a 185 gr. VLD in a 308 but it works. A 1-11" would be safer if you were planning on shooting it in matches across the country. Just my opinion. Berger wouldn't recommend a 1-12" for the 185 gr. VLD if it didn't work in all of the various 30 cal cartridges - including the 308 WIN.
     
  4. shadowdrak

    shadowdrak Active Member

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    Each rifle and barrel is pretty picky on bullet weight. Sometimes in can be due to a non-true twist (i.e. 1:8 is really a 1:8.5 twist) or just the rifles characteristics. My own Rem. 700 PSS in 308 loves anything from 165 to 180 g. bullet weights. All of these loads are kept under 1/2 MOA and most of the time can stay under .25 MOA (168 Berger VLD and Hornady 178 A-Max). I've had people say 150-155 g. would do good, but when I tried them they were over 1 MOA. Maybe good for some, but not for me. Buy some 180's and give them a try (box of 50) you might be surprised.
     
  5. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    It is not that a 180 or 190 wont stabilize in a 1-12 twsit they just arent optimum. You will have a hard time beating the 175 SMK or Berger or the 178 AMAX in the 12x 308. It is a sweet spot IMHO which is important IMHO.
     
  6. littletoes

    littletoes Well-Known Member

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    Too many people believe what others say, or what they read....think outside the box, and give it a try if you want, others have.

    Check this out, and grin, others are doing it......

    West Coast Tactical: Login
     
  7. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Littletoes

    Hay the link does not work it just takes you to the login in page.
     
  8. littletoes

    littletoes Well-Known Member

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    Here is the entire post from another memeber of WCT;

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey guys, been playing with the 208 in the 308 and 30-06. Here's some surprising findings from the 308.

    Bought the 208s primarily for the 30-06. Figured I'd give them a whirl in the 308, even though I kinda expected stability issues at relatively low MV, and 1/12 twist. Here's what I found:

    Load:

    Brass: Win
    Bullet: 208gr AMax, moly'd
    Powder: RL15, 44.5gr
    Primer: CCI 200
    OAL 2.90"
    MV: 2480 fps
    [​IMG]


    Rifle:

    Rem factory bbl/chamber 700 VS cut to 22"
    1/12 twist
    A5 stock
    Leupold MK4 3.5-10x40 M1, GenII mildot from Premier Reticles
    Badger Ord hardware


    A few days ago I did some 100 yard shots to get a zero. It was windy, but all looked fairly good, at sub-moa.

    I shot at 560 yards to see if stability would be an issue at midrange. Results were sub-moa, at about 20F, in 5-15 winds from 9 0'clock.

    Here's a pic of the 560 yd results:
    [​IMG]



    Today I stretched it out to 1120 yards in 15-25 mph wind from between 1 and 2 o'clock (About half-value). Temp 35F.

    Took a couple rounds to get on steel. I was at 40 moa up, and 7 moa right. I put 10 downrange. 6 hits, 4 misses left (wind wasn't my friend). The black square is 5" by 5" at the outside edges. I'm kinda surprised it was stable out to this distance, at 1/12 twist, 2480 fps MV.

    Here's a pic of the 1120 yard target:
    [​IMG]


    Overall I'm liking the looks of this bullet in the 308 too. Might just make it my go-to bullet for both chamberings.
     
  9. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I thought I went all over that site and did not see this. Very cool thanks for posting.
     
  10. littletoes

    littletoes Well-Known Member

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    No problem, 'Ol Montana Marine has used those 208's at over 1800 yards in his .308, which is a Factory barreled Remington 700 VS LH 1-12 twist, AND IT WORKS.

    It also stabilizes 155 Scenars very well at extended ranges...check out his posts, and they always have great pics too.

    Good Luck with the experimenting!
     
  11. linksmechanic

    linksmechanic Well-Known Member

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    Very strange. Remington uses 1in 12 for there .308 and I bought a .308 ruger vt "varmint" model and it has a 1 in 10 barrel.
     
  12. littletoes

    littletoes Well-Known Member

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    We like to use the "heavies" in our rifles, so the heavier twists are what we like, but Remington shooters live all over, so to make the "hordes" happy, and to sell rifles, they do what they do.

    Its kind of refreshing to see some long range work done with a non-magnum caliber at times, in this world of super-magnums, its a challenge judging wind too. A great learning tool, no doubt.

    Perhaps Remington knows a bit of what they are doing? Don't know....
     
  13. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Littletoes

    Hay cool thank you I could not find Montana Marine on the sight directory. I am however real excited about trying some 208g A-MAX in my 308 when I get it back from Kirby. I have some R15 I have been using in some loads for a budy so I will give that a try. I am a huge 308 fan and live to do things with it guys think you can only do with a magnum.
     
  14. MontanaMarine

    MontanaMarine Well-Known Member

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    Hi shooters,

    As Littletoes points out, I've had good LR results in the 1/12 308 with both the 210 Berger, and the 208 AMax. MV isn't impressive, but at 2500 fps MV, they are still doing about 1500 fps at 1000 yards in local atmosphere (4500').

    From a 26" 700 VS I reached 2600 fps via 50gr W760, moly, neck-sized Win brass, and OAL of 2.95". Same load data yielded 2560 fps from same rifle cut to 22".

    I couldn't make the 208s at a modest 2480 fps MV go unstable at past 1800 yards (about 95 moa el correction). where retained velocity would have been around 1040 fps.