Lazzeroni Warbird Click Bang?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by rivetgun55, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. rivetgun55

    rivetgun55 Member

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    I have a Sako TRG-S from Lazzeroni in Warbird.I got it new about 8 years ago. Have always Handloaded. Using 165 gr. sst Hornady and RL 25 powder. On the Lazzeroni reloading charts it lists starting load as 93 gr. and max load 106 gr. When I first started out at 100 gr. I was noticing primer problems such as cratering and once a piece of brass got stuck in the chamber so as directions I backed down 10 percent and went to 90 gr. I have shot it all these years at this load but have always still had one problem. About 1 round in 20 does this. Usually I pull the trigger and its just a bang. but then there is the one that actually goes click bank. I actually here the firing pin hit befor the bang. Seems if the primer went off I would not hear the click. I have always used fresh Federal 215. If it was a delay in the powder going off I would think I would hear the primer poping but who knows. Any Help would be appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. LewisH

    LewisH Well-Known Member

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    Look up the causes, cures, and dangers of "Hang Fire."
     

  3. steve smith

    steve smith Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a very light charge! Ran the numbers in Quickload, and using 3.5" COAL and 90grs RL 25 it very low pressure (in the 40-45kpsi range). The click-bang is definitely a hangfire. I've run into them using a fairly light charge of slow powder in my 270-300rum, and the only solution is to increase the charge weight. I would suggest that you start working up the load over a chronograph. If your not really all that concerned about the velocity, then just work it up to a point at which the shot to shot variation is very small and leave it at that.
     
  4. rivetgun55

    rivetgun55 Member

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    thanks so much guys. I didn't even know it was called a hangfire. I think I will increase my load a little at a time and see if I can get it to go away and then go from there. Thanks
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    If you stuck a case, you were wise to drop your load but 10% on a case like this is to much. These cases use slow burning powder and these powders do not really like to be used at lower pressure. Generally 5% off max is about the right starting load.

    I hate to say this but I believe alot of your problem is caused by the very light bullet your using. Yes, they have loading data for it but with a round as large as the Warbird, this size of chambering really starts to come into its own with 180 gr bullets and 200 gr are even better. THey just make the case work much more efficently and powder ignition is generally much better behind a heavy bullet because the weight of the bullet helps in building pressure for better ignition and burning of the powder.

    Generally, your velocity spreads will also be tighter with the heavier bullets.

    My brother has a Warbird and he tried to get the 180s to shoot. They did alright but never did really shoot well. Then he tried the 200 gr Accubond and the rifle really shot well, much more consistant then with the lighter bullets.

    Just might be something to try.
     
  6. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "Click-bang" is most commonly due to improper primer seating.

    Big cases are best used with big - for caliber - bullets.

    All powders are made to achieve best, most consistant burn rate when chamber pressures are near max in the cartridges they are designed for.
     
  7. rivetgun55

    rivetgun55 Member

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    Thanks everyone for help on both of the warbird threads. I saw another thread that said to polish the expander ball for smoother in and out. My expander ball had a small edge. I could feel it with my finger nail. I polished it off, trimmed my cases, went to 95 gr. for the occasional hang fire. Went to the range and shot around 30 rounds. All went well! Thanks Ed
     
  8. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "I saw another thread that said to polish the expander ball for smoother in and out."

    You mean someone suggested polishing an expander ball to prevent hang fires? Interesting. And a good example of the foolish info available on the web.
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    What Kirby said is spot on.
     
  10. rivetgun55

    rivetgun55 Member

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    I'm sorry to have mislead you. I had a second thread about having problem also sizing brass as the expander ball comes back thru the neck it seems really tight. My fault for not explaining properly. Thanks
     
  11. uncle_motorhead

    uncle_motorhead Member

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    Kirby is one smart cat with a lot of experience To light a charge is spot on, and that looks like what fixed your problem.

    You may have noticed, the problem was worse in cold weather, or when pointing the casing down when loading it.

    A tighter neck and adding a tighter crimp can also help alleviate the symptom, so polishing the expander ball, could have made it worse.

    However I disagree with the 165 being too light for the Warbird causing the problem. I have run RL25, and 130 gr Barnes bullets through my 30-378 Wby for years. Never a hangfire. I don't underload them. I also load 120 grain Lazerhead bullets in my Firebird, without issue, but 7828 works a little better in there. I have had very good luck with heavier bullets using Retumbo. These lighter "BARNES Bullets" hang together very well and don't hurt the shoulder so bad when they go boom. The 120 from the Firebird and the 130 in the 30-378 both approach 4000 fps.

    You can also buy Factory Weatherby ammo with the Barnes TTSX 130 grain.
     
  12. uncle_motorhead

    uncle_motorhead Member

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    I correct myself in the thread above when I said polishing the expander could have made it worse. Polishing the expander ball, depending upon how much, would increase neck tension. This, along with a nice tight crimp, will keep the bullet in place slightly longer, allowing pressure to build, so when it does start moving, it has enough pressure it does not stop when it hits the rifling, causing rapid pressure gains to unstick it. You can get a very similar fix by seating the bullet against the rifling. (not the same but similar) However you still need enough powder. Just tightening the neck is not the cure, it just helps.

    I got this info from Hodgdon, when I had a cold temp hangfire problem with lower charges of Ball powder (below 80% full). With small cases they recommended AGAINST a magnum primer to fix it, because when cold it wouldn't really help, but in hot temps, the pressures could jump up to 15,000 psi higher than a regular primer would.