Is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "light" for 1,000+ yard hunting?

[Alaska2006]

Bowfishn, I've surely not seen it all by any stretch but to smoke a grizz at 900 with a 6.5 creed would be just short of crazy, not because he'll come get ya but simply just a bad shot to take. I've personally killed 3 grizz/coastal brown bears in AK. Two of three were bang flop, my last one was not and it was my fault, bad shot and took it anyway, I did recover the bear after 4-5 more rounds in him. There are pictures posted on this site somewhere of all 3 bears. I've been a part of 3 other grizz/ brown bear kills in AK and 3 for 3 were bang flop. Of my personal kills, 1 killed with 280 rem at about 250 yrd, one with 338 win mag at 150 yrd, my last and bad one killed with 338 win mag backed up with 280 rem. first shot at about 450 running (bad decision) the next 4-5 shots ranged from 300 yrds to about 60 feet. The other 3 were killed with 300 WM and 300 RUM.
A 6.5 creed at beyond 700 on anything larger than a speed goat is a bad shoot to take in my opinion. Really for me any shot beyond about 500 yrd on game is a bad decision, but that is just me, ppl do it all the time with success. I'm just mot that skilled.

 

[Bowfishn]

Yes it is a lot like Moly without the mess, and I believe it will protect the barrel from erosion even better than Moly, but that has not been fully proven.
Most of the guys I have talked with say the can shows increased velocity over the Chrono. Point of impact also changes for me at 100 yards when I run my Magnetospeed on the end of the barrel, I always seem to hit 4" high, not because of a speed difference but from a harmonics difference.
And you are probably right about the Can design some could shoot slower, but that is the first I have heard of it.

 

[tim_w]

Bowfishn, I've surely not seen it all by any stretch but to smoke a grizz at 900 with a 6.5 creed would be just short of crazy, not because he'll come get ya but simply just a bad shot to take.......

I concur 110% I would say its unethical and I am a person that really believes in LR hunting and am not one of the "you need a magnum to kill mice" crowd.

The fact that bullet hit the spine was, regardless of how good a shot the person is and that was goal target of the shot, overwhelmingly chance or what most would call extremely lucky.

 

[Bowfishn]

The second shot shows the 6.5 Creedmoor had more than enough energy at that distance to do the job, don't care if it's a magnum with twice the energy shot still need to be placed right. If bullet opens up and penetrates through vitals it is enough regardless. Shot placement is the most important.
Magnum heavy bullets are more for being able to get through thick bone and still make it to the vitals.
A bad shot with a 338 LM is still a bad shot and a well placed 243 Win is a kill with the proper bullet.
Not saying I would have taken the shot, I would limit myself to 600 - 800 yards on game, because of me not the Cartridge.

 

[CA48]

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Bowfishn, this is exactly the opposite of what I've read about suppressor effect on POI. Usually POI is lower with a can, meaning less velocity. So what is true or is it dependent on the design of the can?

I like it that you are loading with HBN coated bullets. That stuff is almost magical and such a tiny bit goes a long way in a tumbler of 100 bullets. Barrels run cooler with HBN and cooler barrels last longer.

Eric B.

I always thought I would gain velocity with a can. But I ran three shots with it on then 3 with it off the other day and lost 8fps by using the can. Using a magneto speed and Hunter town Arms Ti supp.

 

[Bowfishn]

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I always thought I would gain velocity with a can. But I ran three shots with it on then 3 with it off the other day and lost 8fps by using the can. Using a magneto speed and Hunter town Arms Ti supp.

Thanks for the info, interesting that you lost velocity, I would doubt anyone using RL26 with a near max load with a 6.5 Creedmoor would see a decrease with a Can on. Different manufacturers designs may have that effect as well as long barrel lengths that have used up most of the pressure.

Here are a few tests on with and without cans.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/07/16/6-5-creedmoor-barrel-length-and-muzzle-velocity/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/16/suppressors-affecting-velocity/
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/12/12/rifle-suppressor/

 

[Bowfishn]

Looking at the definition of ELR Hunting being ranges beyond 1000 yards and taking the word ethical out of the equation as ethics is not the question but physics is. Past 1000 yards the 6.5 Creed is starting to lose its ability, so my vote is not quite enough for beyond 1000 yards but enough if placed right to take it to 1000 yards with the right load and shooter ability.

 

[Greyfox]

I would consider the 6.5CM a 700-800 yard medium game round when driven with +140gr at 2800FPS. If the reports of shooters getting +2950FPS range using R26 with solid accuracy and "stability" with the +140's are valid, I'd say 1000 yards is OK. I have used my 6.5x284 with 140gr@2975FPS on game to 1000 yards or a bit more for several years with excellent success. Using my smaller cased 6.5's(6.5x47L, 6.5CM, 260R) mostly for competition, I have not tried pushing them into 6.5x284 territory.

 

[Bowfishn]

I would consider the 6.5CM a 700-800 yard medium game round when driven with +140gr at 2800FPS. If the reports of shooters getting +2950FPS range using R26 with solid accuracy and "stability" with the +140's are valid, I'd say 1000 yards is OK. I have used my 6.5x284 with 140gr@2975FPS on game to 1000 yards or a bit more for several years with excellent success. Using my smaller cased 6.5's(6.5x47L, 6.5CM, 260R) mostly for competition, I have not tried pushing them into 6.5x284 territory.

RL26 with added vel does have a price to pay, with its higher Heat of Explosion rate you will give up barrel life, so 2800 fps with 140s usually means H4350 and a bit longer barrel life. When my throat is gone in my build (Savage Long Action) I will rechamber in 6.5X284 if I can and buy another 6.5 Creed barrel. Right now I am working on my new Savage 10 BA Stealth, wanted a chassis rifle and with Savages $150.00 rebate I figured now was the time. I am doing all my preliminary work with RL26, 130 ELD-M bullets, GM210M primers and New Nosler Brass.
Do you have any success stories you want to share with your 6.5X284, bullets used, game and yardage?

 

[Greyfox]

RL26 with added vel does have a price to pay, with its higher Heat of Explosion rate you will give up barrel life, so 2800 fps with 140s usually means H4350 and a bit longer barrel life. When my throat is gone in my build (Savage Long Action) I will rechamber in 6.5X284 if I can and buy another 6.5 Creed barrel. Right now I am working on my new Savage 10 BA Stealth, wanted a chassis rifle and with Savages $150.00 rebate I figured now was the time. I am doing all my preliminary work with RL26, 130 ELD-M bullets, GM210M primers and New Nosler Brass.
Do you have any success stories you want to share with your 6.5X284, bullets used, game and yardage?

I just posted this on another site that is collecting info on game shot;

Over the past seven years I have shot 40 game animals with my Cooper 520 in 6.5x284 using 142 JLK VLD's(G7 BC .323) at 2970FPS; and 140 Berger Hunting VLD(BC .313) at 2985FPS. I should note that a I could see no difference in terminal performance on game between the two bullet brands and will use them both in my 6.5x284's. The majority of the animals were shot using the JLK's due to slightly better precision and ES in my Cooper. Both bullets have similar form, and utilize J4 jackets. Apologies for the generalized approach and lack of detail photos of shot damage. I'm not much of a picture taker.

-4 Mule Deer bucks: 350-650 yards. All DRT, chest shots at various angles. Being heavy Alberta bucks, only one displayed full penetration of the bullet. Typical small entrance (1") and major internal damage. The one animal with a rib cage exit was 3". Shown below is one of the few recovered bullets from a forward angle chest shot at 650 yards that was found against the inside forward chest cavity. Bullets at 600+ yards tend to look more like the classic mushroom if recovered. Shorter range shots, while effective killers, demonstrate a greater degree of fragmentation.

-8 Whitetail bucks: 175-754 yards. 5 DRT, 3 dead within 50 yards. All chest shots at various angles. Full penetration on 4 , 1" entrance, 2-3" exit with major internal damage. 4, no exit, small entrance, major internal damage, few bullets recovered, generally jacket pieces.

-13 Whitetail does: Helped landowner cull whitetail does. 650-1000 (998 actual)yards. All DRT, 1' entrance, 2-3" exits.

-9 Antelope bucks:400-800 yards. 2 dead within 50 yards, 7 DRT. Chest shots at various angles. All except 2 had full penetration.

-6 Antelope does: 600-1188(farthest game shot) similar results as Whitetail does. The 1188 yard Antelope was hit at the junction of the neck/shoulder. DRT with full penetration. Major spine fragmentation and lung damage.

Photo: Recovered JLK from 650 yard mulie. Also included a few pics of the game taken. Not all would post on the new sire format.

 

[Bowfishn]

Nice, thanks for the post, that is some of the more informative information on the 6.5 bullet at the 2900-3000 fps velocity.
Congrats on all the great hunts.
That is the kind of info needed, from the number that were DRT and the short distance traveled by the others, you obviously are capable of delivering an accurately placed bullet.

 

[Danehunter]

I agree with Grayfox on the 800 yard max for the 6.5 CM and on medium game, a cow elk being at the top of that range, antelope on the lower end.

But his 6.5/284 cartridge is in another league with its much larger case capacity and faster muzzle velocity. So OK, it's a "barrel burner" for a competitive rifle like my RPR but a hunting rifle sees far fewer rounds per year and for that it is an excellent cartridge. With a 145 - 147 gr. bullet it should be good for bull elk (IMHO).
C'mon, people think nothing of using a 165 gr. .308 on bull elk at say, 500 yards but both the 6.5 CM and 6.5/284 have more energy at even 400 yards than that 165 gr. .308 Win. round. It IS physics.

Eric B.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I agree with Grayfox on the 800 yard max for the 6.5 CM and on medium game, a cow elk being at the top of that range, antelope on the lower end.

But his 6.5/284 cartridge is in another league with its much larger case capacity and faster muzzle velocity. So OK, it's a "barrel burner" for a competitive rifle like my RPR but a hunting rifle sees far fewer rounds per year and for that it is an excellent cartridge. With a 145 - 147 gr. bullet it should be good for bull elk (IMHO).
C'mon, people think nothing of using a 165 gr. .308 on bull elk at say, 500 yards but both the 6.5 CM and 6.5/284 have more energy at even 400 yards than that 165 gr. .308 Win. round. It IS physics.

Eric B.

Intresting, to get 2900 ft-per second out of the 6.5 Creedmoor means your loading hot, real hot to get the 140gr bullets up there.

A 308 winchester with 165gr bullets to 2900 ft-per second is also hot but very doable.

Funny thing is that most 165gr bullets @ 2900 ft-per second support 1500 ft-lbs energy at the 400 yard mark give or take 0.2 of +/-

The hot hot loaded 6.5 Creedmoor with 140gr bullets at 2900 ft-per second at 400 yards is showing signs of 1450 ft-lbs energy at 400 yards give or take 0.2 +/- as well

So it depends on what loading ballistics one might be looking at.

I know one thing,,, I ain't pulling no pin on no bear little lone a Grizzly at 900 yards.

Dangerous Game category my friends.
The trick might be wize to allow for over kill/ I like the word harvest.

When a Grizzly stands in front of you at 30 yards or 60 feet,,, the first question that might come to ones mind is...

Do I have enough gun if he crosses the stream.
This you will know in the heat of the moment.

Western Canada Don where all bears are big bears

 

[Danehunter]

Don,
Grizzly/Brown bears are dangerous game and should not be hunted with a 6.5 ANYTHING. My .300 Win mag with 200 gr. partition bullets would be, for me, the absolute minimum cartridge for those critters.

But the 6.5/284 is good for bull elk at 500 yards or less

Eric B.