I need HELP!!!! Not enough MOA

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by 105Coues, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. 105Coues

    105Coues Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    I am hoping some of you can help me with my current issue. I have a win model 70 300 win mag with a vortex viper 6.5 to 20x50 mounted with a weaver extended 20 MOA rail and weaver grand slam rings. I am zeroed at 300 and I only have 20.5 MOA available which gets me out to 950 but not 1000.

    I thought I would have more adjustment so I need ideas on how to get there????

    Also I have a 270 win with the exact same setup and I only have 9.5 MOA to work with which only takes me to 650. Bummed out is an understatement when the rifle will shoot .3 MOA groups.
     
  2. cblackwell

    cblackwell Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    you can look at near mfg , for a base with more moa. or the burris rings with inserts may be an option. I am fairly new to all this myself and am confident more experienced and qualified members will chime in. hope this helps though.
     

  3. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    First , are you sure the rail is mounted correctly? Have you checked to see how much down travel you have? Are you turning the dial in correct direction? I know these seem like dumb questions but sometimes we all make mistakes or misunderstand so no offense.

    The scope should have about 32 MOA in each direction so In theory you should have about 50 total up travel with the rail after zero at 200.

    Which reticle do you have? You may be able to use the bottom post and add moa with the turret to that so you can shoot the distance you want.
     
  4. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Go to 30 or have your existing rail milled. Any competent machine shop cam ball mill the rail (if your receiver is round, or end mill the rail if it's flat). All it takes is a sine bar, some gage blocks and a milling machine, and of course a competent machinist.
     
  5. 105Coues

    105Coues Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    No offense taken. Yes it is mounted with the scope pointing toward the barrel. And I have been shooting out to 950 I just can't shoot further so I am turning it the right direction.
    I do zero at 300 but I thought I should have more adjustment as well. Thx
     
  6. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    The scope is listed as having 65moa of internal travel.

    Mounted on a "0" degree base, you should have 32.5moa of travel +- whatever you needed to zero.

    Fitted properly to a 20 min rail, you should have 52.5moa of up travel, less whatever you needed to zero.

    Something is way off here. Either the rail is backwards, or the rail is not seated properly, or the rail was never machined properly or the rings do not match. Final possibility is the barrel being mounted at an angle to the receiver or bent.

    I would start with the rings. Try a set of Warne Maxima steel rings and see if that solves the problem.
     
  7. 105Coues

    105Coues Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    That is what I thought as well . Here is a pic. This is the one that only has 9.5 MOA of adjustment. The rail is sloped down toward the barrel.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    I don't think I have ever seen a scope mounted so far back, but that should not make a difference. Are the rings aluminum ? Take everything off. Verify that the rail is in fact a 20 min rail. Then apply some blue loctite to the rail and receiver and remount it. Make sure to get it aligned fast because when that stuff sets up it is a bear to get it free. That way you are guaranteed the rail will not move under recoil. Weaver have never been very good rings in my opinion, so try some better rings like the steel Warne Maximas.

    If this does not straighten things out, then your receiver and barrel are probably not in alignment.
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    +1. Weaver is, well, junk.
     
  10. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Have you checked the total travel yet? I would like to know if you do indeed have 65 moa total travel. That would at least eliminate that question.
     
  11. 105Coues

    105Coues Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Thx I just looked at the old std height leopold mount and rings and the front base (2 pc) is about 1/8 inch shorter than the rear. I could visually see the weaver rail was shorter in the front so I thought all looked well. Not sure how much height difference it takes to make 20 MOA but wondering now if I have the real 20 MOA rail. Checked the scope and it has 58 MOA full travel.

    Here is a pic of the old rings. I am hoping someone has a Winchester model 70 that can chime in on their base height.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. 375fan

    375fan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    297
    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Don't take me wrong, but are you sure that rail is 20moa? I have couple m70's so am familiar with them, and that rail just doesn't look like 20moa to me.
    What is your load and velocity?
     
  13. 105Coues

    105Coues Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Not taking anything wrong. I just appreciate the help. I am wondering the same thing. Is your front mount shorter than the rear like my old one is in the picture? Are you using a 20MOA on yours? The boxes both said 20 and were purchased from the same dealer. These are my first 20 MOA rails as I am new to this so I wasn't sure. I just know that doing the math 58(full travel)-29+20-4(300zero) should give me roughly 45 and that is a far cry from 9.5 or 20.5.

    I just emailed weaver so I am hoping they can give me measurements so I can mike it. If you have info specifically on the Model 70. I would love to hear it. Thanks again.

    Almost forgot Nosler 165 Ballistic tip at 3130.
     
  14. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Remember 20 min is 20/60 = 1/3 of a degree. Not a large amount. I have owned a 20 min Weaver rail, and it seemed to be well made, but I'm generally not impressed with their rings at all.