How does a suppressor effect long range shooting?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Buck44, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Buck44

    Buck44 Member

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    I have one on a 10-22. I love it!!

    I have raced dirt track cars my whole life and have a problem with hearing. I love shooting but i grew up shooting without ear muffs or any protection. It is feasable to set up your rifles with suppressors? What is the legality of hunting coyotes and ground hogs and such? I read the Tn hunting manual cover to cover and could not find one thing that said it was illegal.

    Also how hard is it to get a barrel threaded? Is that an easy procedure?
     
  2. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Game wardens don't like suppressors, but have the paperwork and they can't touch you. At least that is the consensus in PA. We can use them, but you have to have your permit on hand. You have to pay the state $200 to be investigated, and then given permission should all be right with your life. At that point it is the cost of buying the can. I was told by a smith, I would be looking at $600+ to get the permit and can bought and mounted to my rifle. Threading a barrel is as simple as threading for a muzzle break.

    Some guys swear they add accuracy. They also act as a mild break. I have an 18" .308 I would like to put a can on to take the crack out of that one. It is LOUD!!!

    Tank
     

  3. Buck44

    Buck44 Member

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    I just did a search and found other responses to the same question.

    Man I wish I could hook up with one gun buider to help with all these issues that I have but who do you go to?
     
  4. lovdasnow

    lovdasnow Well-Known Member

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    i have one on my 6.5x47lapua, and love it. shooting at 1k with a really quiet gun is a lot of fun. it will also go on my 280AI when that comes back from the smith.

    all states are different, so it's best to talk to someone in your state that can give you a little more info on the legality of hunting with one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  5. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Varmint Hunter Magazine, Issue #75, July 2010, has a great article entitled "Silent Hunter."

    You may be able to order back issues... Varmint Hunter Digital Edition | Digital Edition for Varmint Hunter Magazine | Online Varmint Hunter Magazine

    The article addresses licensing, ownership, and legal use for each state which varies greatly.

    a few noteworthy points made by the author...

    Even when suppressed, there will be a sonic "crack" if the bullet exceeds the speed of sound.

    Suppressors have been shown to add 30 to 50 fps due to added barrel length.

    Recoil is often reduced by up to 50%.

    David Whitson (Untitled Page) makes them in nearby Plano, TX. He let my 14yo son shoot his suppressed 308 at the range. It was awesome!

    IMHO - They are definitely worth looking into if you shoot a lot.

    --richard
     
  6. TBass

    TBass Member

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    Rscott summed it up pretty well…. And by all means check the laws in your state. That being said:

    Once you shoot a rifle with a can, it is hard to go back to a rifle without a can, or worse yet a muzzle brake. A good can may cause a shift in your zero; however, it should be a repeatable shift… thus, once you re-zero you are good to go. Additionally it smooths out the recoil without the muzzle blast.

    All in all – I run cans on all of my long range rigs & I have found them to increase the accuracy. The only downside to a can is the initial cost & waiting for the BATF approval.
     
  7. scotsgun

    scotsgun Well-Known Member

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    Those rules are just nuts. Even here in the UK, where the gun laws are draconian at best, we are encouraged to use moderators. The most common reason stated is the preserving of the shooter's and other's hearing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'd never want to hunt without one. An advantage not commonly stated is that the deer are often confused and unsure where the shot came from. This often allows you to drop a 2nd or even 3rd deer before they bolt.
     
  8. TBass

    TBass Member

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    Besides the specific laws, there are general negative assumptions by a lot of people with respects to suppressors:
    1) Assumption that they are illegal
    2) General assumption that if you have one that you are up to no good
    3) They are so quite that you cannot even hear them being fired
    4) I would even go so far to say as many of law enforcement officers (both conservation officers and police) have very little understanding of the actual laws pertaining to suppressors


    After people have shot mine:
    1) They want to know what it takes to own one (ie cost & legality)
    2) They can’t believe the recoil reduction, increase in accuracy
    3) They love the fact that most calibers can now be shot without hearing protection (personal choice)
    4) They are impressed with the accuracy.

    I have yet to take someone shooting or met someone at a range that shot one of my suppressed rifles that after shooting them said that there are no needs for a can, that they were unimpressed, or that they are a waste of money.

    I will not turn this into an ethical debate; however, Scotsgun did bring up a very good point in the fact that it can lead to more follow-up shots... thus cleaner kills.



    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. velocity-is-key

    velocity-is-key Member

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    Hello I have a question everyone seems to avoid concerning sound suppressors...
    I have access to highly advanced CAD which I love and a high tech state of the art precision CNC machining service so I am in the process of getting several of my own designs for high power sound suppressors approved through the form 1 procedure so that I may manufacture several for my own pleasure being I have a moderate background in mechanical engineering ( and loosing my hearing)...I feel it is a awesome gift to be able to design and perfect a one of a kind firearm after going through the proper channels with the BATF and getting approved..
    There is tons of info and clearly stated may I add on the welding/pinning on of "flash suppressors" to legally make a SBR a non-NFA legal weapon not requiring NFA registration. I have not (clearly) read any such info on the welding on of a "sound" suppressor to establish the same end result. Therefore I am assuming any sound suppressor attached to any weapon by any means designed to propel a projectile by a explosive charge must be registered as a NFA weapon and the only benefit to doing this would be to avoid a SBR additional tax stamp and $200 ( or stamp all together if allowed) to a weapon (avoiding a 2 stamp $400 tax stamped weapon)...
    I have tried to make sense out of the literature on the ATF site but it can be confusing...Can anyone add to this topic of my question being ;
    Do I have to register a firearm with a combined barrel/suppressor length of over 16" with "welded/pinned" on "sound suppressor" with a removable baffle design to the ATF? Or would the removable baffle be the cause of this requirement only??....Thanks.
    Mark
     
  10. velocity-is-key

    velocity-is-key Member

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    Also my 2 cents on the topic of long range shooting with suppressors,you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Point of impact will change in relation to barrel contour and length as the extra weight and how far out it hangs from a bedded point will change the harmonics...I have found heavy barrels bedded as well as the action of course (1.350" straight) are less prone to the variables of barrel harmonics and with precision well made suppressors "DO NOT" change point of impact and "tighten groups"! Believe it or not on lighter tapers barrel sag does happen and multiplies as heat goes up with a CAN attached or weight attached to the end of a barrel consequently causing you to hit several inches lower at nominal ranges...I have never seen changes in velocity from a well designed suppressor, ever! Also fat short barrels ,18-20" are actually very stiff and all that is necessary to propel a safe load with a non magnum case capacity; .308, .243 to its near maximum velocity with a almost non existing, un-noticable loss...I hacked off 11 inches from my hot 6mm-284 1:8 twist 1.350" barrel to make it 18.5" + a 14" long suppressor and found;
    1. A lot lighter gun.
    2. more accurate with and without suppressed but more suppressed.
    3. 3150 FPS using a 105 grain Berger VLD tight NK safely which is astonishing in a 6mm-284 with a 18.5"
    4. A 180-200 FPS loss only which may possibly be made up with a different powder..
    5. they are great muzzle recoil arrestors also.

    When you add the benefits of less recoil, less noise, less barrel harmonics what is there to lose?
    They are great for the long shot and a joy to watch the vapor trail or heat trail at night with a Thermal....Hope I did not blab too much but thats what blogs are for...
     
  11. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting stuff Velocity.

    I don't have an answer for you.

    But, I would sure stay way clear of the BATF S!@# list.

    -- richard
     
  12. mfox497

    mfox497 Active Member

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    We shoot suppressed at work with a 308. Out of 3 rifles and shooters we all closed our groups with the can on. This remains true out to 1000. It wasnt much and could be attributed to less recoil and report. I am not sure on the velocity change but I know that the gun shoots much dirtier with it on. We shoot 200 rounds with it on in a day with out cleaning and had no malfunctions. Its a knights armament M110.
     
  13. velocity-is-key

    velocity-is-key Member

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    Thats what I expected to hear...That Knights is a costly CAN also obviously so is the 110 if its a stoner but I'm sure your paying for the ability to withstand all tactical scenarios with that awesome combo...I don't have any experience other than with the bolt guns but the results should be the same as the psychological aspect of less report and recoil reduction are a joy to look forward to when you pull that trigger and believe me your sub-conscience knows it too. I love to see the bullet inpact having never blinked or lost sight of it in the scope blinded by a muzzle flash...Day or especially night of course...
     
  14. mfox497

    mfox497 Active Member

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    Yes it is nice being able to spot most of your own rounds. At night with out any night vision you cannot see any flash at all but when using the night optic you pick up a little and cant see any splash so its really hard to spot. I would love to put a can on my personal rifle.