High BC Bullet Gap
- Thread starter TX Badger
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
"only .007 difference" You should shoot the .264 bullet in your .257 then!!
The way I got it figured, the bullet that exits the bbl will have an even higher BC than it started with in the chamber!!
WIN WIN.
TX Badger
Well-Known Member
Form firing bullets. Forget this thread I have found my solution.
scottyd2506
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2009
- Messages
- 159
"only .007 difference" You should shoot the .264 bullet in your .257 then!!
The way I got it figured, the bullet that exits the bbl will have an even higher BC than it started with in the chamber!!
WIN WIN.
yeah, if it exits the barrel!!
No doubt the matrix 6.5mm 160 grain bullet at .680 bc is a winner.
86alaskan
Well-Known Member
Once again my pain is felt. I asked about a high BC 257 on the accurate shooter forum and got the same answers. I would love to see hornady take the lead and do even a 120gr ELD-X. With the numbers that is putting up in the 6.5's, a 120 would be killer into the .5+ area. I hope it happens, my new 25-06 is being cut rifled to 1-9" and throated for the berger 115. I'm sure that a 120 or 130 VLD would work ok in a 1-9". I'd stuff it to the gills with H1000, retumbo or RL25 and let it rip.
scottyd2506
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2009
- Messages
- 159
That is what I was saying, if Matrix can make a 160 in .264 with a ,680 BC, why can't they make a 153-155 in .257 with around a .670 - .680 bc
Berger has high bc bullets for every caliber except .257. 25-06 rifles was are extremely popular and there is money to be made, but nope not one bullet over .5 bc, yet they make 4-5 for the 24 and 27's bore that no factory rifle has an 8 twist for.
So the EXCUSE of "they wouldn't stabilize in the factory slow twist barrel, so we don't make em." I challenge Berger to show me one factory rifle in 270 win 270 wsm etc with a 8 twist, 99.99% of em are 10 twists.
look a Hornady, the Vmax line of bullets. Great coyote bullets, they make good ones for the .22 .24 .26 . 27 and .28
the 87 grain vmax in ,243 has a bc of .400
the best you can get for the ,257 is a short stubby 75 vmax with a poor .290 bc
move up to the 26 bore, a 95 vmax with a .365 bc
the 27 bore gets a nice 110 vmax with with a .370 bc
the 28 bore gets a 120 vmax with a .365 bc
pretty good numbers for varmint bullets except the 25
There are rare exceptions
I shoot the Sierra 90 grain Blitzkings out of my ,25-06 at 3550 3600 fps, they have a .388 bc coyotes are dead before they hit the dirt
Anyways, I kinda gave up on the 25-06 as a long range gun.. the 115 bergers shoot well, but practice is killer on the barrel, this is an extreme overbore round.. throats erode quick.. mine has well over 1300-1500 rounds-- accuracy is not what it once was,
This kind of rifle you get a load made up quick and use it for hunting
Wind Gypsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 154
I have a hard time seeing why a bullet manufacturer would try to create a market that doesn't exist with a bullet introduction. The 277 made slightly more sense here than the 257 did.
For my own selfish reasons I'd rather see the EOL line expand to .308 and 6.5 first where a lot of people have purpose build LR guns already.
For my own selfish reasons I'd rather see the EOL line expand to .308 and 6.5 first where a lot of people have purpose build LR guns already.
86alaskan
Well-Known Member
I feel ya scottyd. I had about 1000rds into my tikka before it wouldn't hold groups. there was an area about 6" ahead of the chamber that was very rough, that's why i'm having it rebarreled. I love the 25-06 and wanted to keep with it. I sure will slow my roll when shooting to try and save the barrel as much as possible. right now it's at 1-9" twist to accommodate the berger 115 and hopefully the 120 partition. I hope i can get at least another 1000, that'll be ok, then i'll probably go with a 6.5 and abandon the poor old quarter bore.
scottyd2506
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2009
- Messages
- 159
How do you figure this???
As a whole through the years the 270 was no more popular than the 25-06 was. there was actually more 25 caliber guns on the popular market than the 27 caliber. .250 Savage 257 Roberts, 25-06 and 257 Wby, where the only two 27's where the 270 win and 270 Wby.
of course now you can ad the 25 WSSM and 270 WSM
the 25-06 and 270 are both plenty for deer sized game, neither are best suited for elk, although the 270 would be the better choice w larger bullets. the 7mm on up are elk territory. with the new Berger 170 and Matrix 165-170 this could move the 27's into elk land, But then again so would a 155 grain .257.
Not going to start a caliber war, but yeah, there is zillions of 6.5 bullets that have well over .5 and .6 bc, don't need anymore 130-140 142 6.5mm's . Just make one 155 Hybrid in 257
On the extreme side- I would agree with you on the 6.5
As there is such a huge market for 6.5mm's , why is Matrix the only bullet maker making a 160 with a .680 bc, while Berger continues to be in the stone age with the dinky little 140's barely over .600 bc
I would agree some, but there is already plenty of high BC 6.5mm bullets out there. The 215 Berger with a .691 avg BC is a winner. but not much else.
It does seem the 230 hybrid w a .717 bc isn't monumental. a new design should be worked out, they have a 195 7mm w a 755 bc and jump to the 33 caliber a 300 w a .818 BC, the 30's are stuck in the low .7 BC's. and last time I checked, the 30 caliber may still be more popular than the 7mm or the 338 calibers.
No reason there is not a hybrid sleek new 250-260 grain .308 bullet w a 785 BC that isn't all copper and cost $2-3 a bullet.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest some of you actually ask a bullet maker why you don't see a 150+ 25 cal, or better yet go to the Corbin web site and get the gear to build your own bullets.
To get the 160 Matrix was a pile of work over a couple years, just to get a jacket was a battle. You don't just order a special length jacket for kicks and giggles to make a bullet.
There seems to be a lot of whining about the 270 getting high BC bullets, well there would be no 165 if Marshal wasn't into the 270 cal in competition and bought the equipment and do the testing and foundation work to build it. The 170 Berger took Bob Beck and Extreme Outer Limits to get behind it and I suspect swing a heavy financial bat.
Some seem to have the idea that it's no sweat taking a cup and core bullet and just sizing it down a few thou and it'll be all good, it's not easy, the smaller the bore the harder it is cause of how much you increase bearing surface length, so you end up with a heavy for cal bullet with so much bearing surface you have to launch it with a higher capacity case but the twist rate and capacity required make a jacket tearing monster that no one wants. Look at the Berger 195, I know a lot of huge 7mm fans boys who won't run it because the extra bearing surface really put the brakes on in some chamberings.
The 270 makes everyone's top 10 list in popularity and sales and often the 270 Win and WSM are in there. There is not a single quarter bore in any list other than the dodo lists, which is unfortunate but you run a business of sales, if you want to see epic quarter bore bullets generate some sales!!
This thread has a custom bullet maker even asking and offering to build the best he can and you guys turn up your nose and make zero effort, ya that's the way you get traction with manufactures Then to top it of it's fun to B***h about no bullets then when the offer comes, nope don't want it cause it suxs and we don't shoot them anymore or they burn barrels so wont' shot much, yep that should motivate some bullet makers to roll out some quarter bores!!
Maybe shoot what we have and prove it worth the effort, I have a 25x47 Lapua on the board for a med range thumper running the 130 Matrix, after testing the 130 Matrix out of our 250 AI I think it would be a great 600 and in elk and mule deer rig.
Build a 25 cal benchrest rifle and go kick some butt with it, that will also get you some traction just like the 6mm 105 and 115 which few factory rifles are able to run but their sold by the semi load to comp guys or those of use who will pull a barrel and twist up our hunting rifles.
An even better idea is build your self an epic quarter bore, get thousands of dollars worth of camera equipment, tens of thousands into tag and travel and make an awesome hunting with the quarter bore video series, that may do it also. Bottom line action gets traction with bullet makers not whining on the internet!!!
To get the 160 Matrix was a pile of work over a couple years, just to get a jacket was a battle. You don't just order a special length jacket for kicks and giggles to make a bullet.
There seems to be a lot of whining about the 270 getting high BC bullets, well there would be no 165 if Marshal wasn't into the 270 cal in competition and bought the equipment and do the testing and foundation work to build it. The 170 Berger took Bob Beck and Extreme Outer Limits to get behind it and I suspect swing a heavy financial bat.
Some seem to have the idea that it's no sweat taking a cup and core bullet and just sizing it down a few thou and it'll be all good, it's not easy, the smaller the bore the harder it is cause of how much you increase bearing surface length, so you end up with a heavy for cal bullet with so much bearing surface you have to launch it with a higher capacity case but the twist rate and capacity required make a jacket tearing monster that no one wants. Look at the Berger 195, I know a lot of huge 7mm fans boys who won't run it because the extra bearing surface really put the brakes on in some chamberings.
The 270 makes everyone's top 10 list in popularity and sales and often the 270 Win and WSM are in there. There is not a single quarter bore in any list other than the dodo lists, which is unfortunate but you run a business of sales, if you want to see epic quarter bore bullets generate some sales!!
This thread has a custom bullet maker even asking and offering to build the best he can and you guys turn up your nose and make zero effort, ya that's the way you get traction with manufactures
Then to top it of it's fun to B***h about no bullets then when the offer comes, nope don't want it cause it suxs and we don't shoot them anymore or they burn barrels so wont' shot much, yep that should motivate some bullet makers to roll out some quarter bores!!Maybe shoot what we have and prove it worth the effort, I have a 25x47 Lapua on the board for a med range thumper running the 130 Matrix, after testing the 130 Matrix out of our 250 AI I think it would be a great 600 and in elk and mule deer rig.
Build a 25 cal benchrest rifle and go kick some butt with it, that will also get you some traction just like the 6mm 105 and 115 which few factory rifles are able to run but their sold by the semi load to comp guys or those of use who will pull a barrel and twist up our hunting rifles.
An even better idea is build your self an epic quarter bore, get thousands of dollars worth of camera equipment, tens of thousands into tag and travel and make an awesome hunting with the quarter bore video series, that may do it also. Bottom line action gets traction with bullet makers not whining on the internet!!!
Wind Gypsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 154
I guess my impression was there were more hunters shooting 270 win than all the quarter bores combined.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I will try.
Here is what we have at this point. We have put some work into a .25 cal bullet because of the "Gap". We have not fully tested this bullet yet. I will give you what have at this point. 3000 fps is about where this bullet should run in a 25-06.
.257 dia
130 grains
1.51" long
G7 bc estimate of .281
This bullet is designed for a 1-7" twist barrel to give it full stability at sea level with an SG of 1.52.
If you are at 3000' elevation you could run this bullet with a 1-7.5" twist with an SG of 1.48.
Now realize that copper is of lower density than lead. So an all copper bullet will be longer for weight than a lead core bullet of the same form. If a lead core bullet of the same exact shape were made it would be heavier and thus have a higher bc. Physical weight is a large factor in bc. In comparison the mono bullet can be launched at higher velocities. So it kind of gets a head start. Eventually the heavier higher bc bullet will catch up. In this case probably about 700 yards (educated guess). But with a couple hundred ft/sec higher muzzle velocity the lighter bullet will give you quite a bit better point blank range. Meaning your effective hunting range with out making any adjustment for drop is significantly increased. Question now becomes how far do you think your effective hunting range is with a .25 cal bullet? That is up to the individual, but probably not much further than 700 yards.
So you guys that want a higher bc .25 can get it just say the word.
Steve
Here is what we have at this point. We have put some work into a .25 cal bullet because of the "Gap". We have not fully tested this bullet yet. I will give you what have at this point. 3000 fps is about where this bullet should run in a 25-06.
.257 dia
130 grains
1.51" long
G7 bc estimate of .281
This bullet is designed for a 1-7" twist barrel to give it full stability at sea level with an SG of 1.52.
If you are at 3000' elevation you could run this bullet with a 1-7.5" twist with an SG of 1.48.
Now realize that copper is of lower density than lead. So an all copper bullet will be longer for weight than a lead core bullet of the same form. If a lead core bullet of the same exact shape were made it would be heavier and thus have a higher bc. Physical weight is a large factor in bc. In comparison the mono bullet can be launched at higher velocities. So it kind of gets a head start. Eventually the heavier higher bc bullet will catch up. In this case probably about 700 yards (educated guess). But with a couple hundred ft/sec higher muzzle velocity the lighter bullet will give you quite a bit better point blank range. Meaning your effective hunting range with out making any adjustment for drop is significantly increased. Question now becomes how far do you think your effective hunting range is with a .25 cal bullet? That is up to the individual, but probably not much further than 700 yards.
So you guys that want a higher bc .25 can get it just say the word.
Steve
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
I sent an Email to someone at EOL about a potential .30 cal offering, not much detail was given other than there will be one. I agree there's more B.C to be had with a redesigned 230gr or possibly slightly heavier. Only difference between the 215 and 230 is the baring surface length.
7mmShooter
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I emailed a couple guys at Berger a month or so back about the new offerings on the drawing board, there will be a full EOL/ Elite Hunter line
