Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

[Broz]

Well I just shot two 3 shot groups at 802 yards. SMK's and the 300 Hybrids.

Conditions were not as good as I would have liked but I do feel I have the conditions down correctly.

First I shot the SMK's. 13.75 up no correction for wind or SD. Wind was ever so light left to right (8 oclockish) maybe 1~2 mph. Group was 3 7/8" POI was 18 1/2" right.. Hooray!

I went up and marked the group, returned and shot the bergers.

13.5 up no correction for wind or SD. Wind had definatly increased left to right (8 oclock) 3~5 mph. Group was 6" (one caught a bit more wind) POI was 12" Right.... YaY!!!!!!

I should add MV for the SMK load is 2805 G1 bc of .768

MV for the bergers is 2795 G7 bc of .419

FC:
77*
Baro 25.66
Hum 30
Azmuth 100
Lat 46*

All I can say at this time is. I feel the above proves that the Bergers do alot better in the wind.

and, I either have a scope problem or I really suck at reading the wind, or both.

Jeff

 

[Pdvdh]

So were the SMKs dead on at 300 also, like the Bergers?

If so, is it a fair conclusion that the Bergers still drift left but the SMKs drift a little to the right?

I'm not sure what to make of the numbers since you had some L to R wind.

Maybe you've got what's taxonomically classified as a 'Lefty'?

 

[Broz]

So were the SMKs dead on at 300 also, like the Bergers?

If so, is it a fair conclusion that the Bergers still drift left but the SMKs drift a little to the right?

I'm not sure what to make of the numbers since you had some L to R wind.

Maybe you've got what's taxonomically classified as a 'Lefty'?

Sorry Phorwath, I didn't rezero or even check it. I was trying to shoot them quick to get close to same FC's for each. I do remember that they were close at 300 with only .25 or .5 moa difference in elevation. All I did was change the velocity and BC in exbal to get my come ups for each bullet. The SMK load has one more gr of powder and a bit more MV. I left the windag on zero. I also compared the ups with LB as I have both traks ( Berger and SMK's) saved in it.

I am not sure the Bergers are drifting left. Both POI's were right but I feel it is fair to say that definatly the Bergers drift right much less. Especially since the wind L to R picked up for the Bergers.

I await time and low or no wind conditions to shoot more. If I continue to see this left pattern, I have another NF ready to go on for a scope test.

On one hand I would love to say it was just me being fooled by the wind. But if this is true, I will feel pretty stupid for what I have put in print here. I guess this is what comes with opening your log book for the world to see.

Another thing is. I have always worked with in 1000 or 1100 yards for testing. Although I shot to 1400 and farther once in a while I did not use it as my effective range. For sure when you step out farther your imperfections are magnified greatly. The good news is. When I get this windage under control, I feel I will have increased mt effective range to engage a cold bore target substantially, and that was my goal in the beginning.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Another week has gone by, 50 more Berger 300 Hybrids down the tube, and I feel I am back on track. I can't totally explain what was going on before, but here are some things I look back and feel I did wrong.

I was over compensating for the 300 Bergers as far as SD and wind were concerned. I was screwed up using the G1 BC of .891 and and made up for it with a MV I knew was wrong. So I then decided to opt for a new program... Bad move! Not that LB3.0 is not a great program with many options to dial in. But bad because it was the last thing I neded to add to my confused state at that time.

I also feel I was wrong on some wind calls. I feel there were a few times I felt no wind at the rifle or target, but was shooting so far I was sending them up into some wind above me. Thus the left drift or lack of rt drift.

So, I made the call to return to square one. With newly announced BC's and Exbal I was soon back on track. My dial ups are spot on out to 1500. I can hold .5 moa groups to 1400 and with the new hybrid bullets. I am correcting less for spin drift and wind. 3 or 4 times this past week I took my rifle out and shot my 1180 yard target cold bore. I have it down pat! Then this afternoon I was out with a shooting buddy till dark. We were shooting rocks in the 10" size range, and some smaller, and I was never off more than 6" from point of aim. Now I didn't really shoot that far, the shots were from 800 to 1080 yds but every shot was good. I have been in different wind, elevations of 3900 to 6500' temps from 58 to 80* ect. All rocks DRT!!

I am back to using my beloved Nightforce Exbal program. I am using a G1 BC of .820. I let exbal calculate the wind. Tried, true and simple! I add Spin drift from starting at 800 with .25 moa , 1000 with .5 moa and 1200 1 moa. ect. I simply remember this and add it.

I don't doubt the Azmuth and coriolis affects are real, and I know much more about them now. But I feel they are small affects, and my time is better spent watcing the one variable that is hardest to tame... WIND! So, right or wrong, I will be making my corrections with out them. It has worked for me all week, and today it was a ton of fun killing small rocks again.

Thanks to all that helped me through this. It was a huge learning curve, and I am better educated.

If any of you are ever in the area, please look me up and we will burn some long range powder.

Respectfully,

Jeff......gun)gun)

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks for the follow-up report Jeff. Glad you've sorted it out, and the Hybrids are shooting so consistently for you. You've been free of the issues some others with .338 Lapua Mags have reported using the Hybrids - nose slump or whatever the cause turns out to be.

I'm glad I don't have to contend with significant wind very often. With a 1 mph wind generating just about as much drift as spin drift does @ 1000yds, it's pretty clear that any crosswind of 2mph or more is the predominant cause of drift. gun)

 

[royinidaho]

Jeff,

Great summary!!

Its kind of nice when after the brain turns to mush, a point is reached where it becomes intolerable. The you stepped up to the plate, took it to the next level (broke the barrier so to speak) and whooo Hooo you're spot on. Great work!

I'm hoping to make a tour of MT along the I-15 corridor with the trip being centered on Ft. Shaw. I figure I'd take advantage of your stop by offer. I figure I could use some "adult supervision" when breaking in the new BB gun. Otta be able to break in and drop chart at the same time?

 

[Broz]

Jeff,
I'm hoping to make a tour of MT along the I-15 corridor with the trip being centered on Ft. Shaw. I figure I'd take advantage of your stop by offer. I figure I could use some "adult supervision" when breaking in the new BB gun. Otta be able to break in and drop chart at the same time?

Roy, We would love to meet you. Just keep me posted on your trip dates and I will be ready and waiting. We can do a drop chart pretty quick right here by the house. Lookin forward to it.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Thanks for the follow-up report Jeff. Glad you've sorted it out, and the Hybrids are shooting so consistently for you. You've been free of the issues some others with .338 Lapua Mags have reported using the Hybrids - nose slump or whatever the cause turns out to be.

I don't know what that slump thing is all about, but I can tell you for sure it is not present in my 338 Lapua at 2785 mv. Even when I was lost on come ups and drift, the groups were small, very small, all of them. So, I just bought another 500 of the 300 Berger Hybrids.

Now I want to do a bit of " Ballistic Roy Science" and send a few into some sort of media or a simulated broiler room at 1000 yards. With Roys results and mine at 1000, then I will feel pretty good about the upcoming season. Tastey brown things beware.

Jeff

 

[Eaglet]

Broz,

What ever works my friend, what ever works...

Last weekend for the first time I was shooting my 338 Edge put together by my buddy geargrinder. Shooting the 300 SMK at 2800 fps. (28" barrel length). After zeroed it in and shooting some groups at 100 yards because I was doing it from the tail gate, I was happy to see the rifle is a shooter. Then my son Marlon shot at some rocks at 645 yard, relatively short so I did not think of using spin drift and Coriolis and all the stuff. Since he was hitting right we walked it in till he was on. He went from 3 clicks left to 7 clicks left. After all was done, I input all the info in LB and to compensate for all the stuff and was highly surprised that it called for 7 clicks left or 1.7 moa including wind compensantion of course. Had I done it right from the beginning My son would have hit it on the first shot.

That's so far working for me I"m glad. I'm also glad that you're happy with what you got. Be happy, that's all that counts at the end.

From Carson City, NV to Townsend, Montana is 14 hrs and 882 miles away...

I'd love to meet you and... never been in Montana but the name alone appeals to me. As of right now would be pretty much impossible but times do change.

Best of lucks to you Jeff... I've enjoyed your perseverance. That's what it takes! We have all learned and just keep posting away.

What is the count through your LP as of now?

 

[jmden]

Roy, We would love to meet you. Just keep me posted on your trip dates and I will be ready and waiting. We can do a drop chart pretty quick right here by the house. Lookin forward to it.

Jeff

From Roy:

"Jeff,

Great summary!!

Its kind of nice when after the brain turns to mush, a point is reached where it becomes intolerable. The you stepped up to the plate, took it to the next level (broke the barrier so to speak) and whooo Hooo you're spot on. Great work!

I'm hoping to make a tour of MT along the I-15 corridor with the trip being centered on Ft. Shaw. I figure I'd take advantage of your stop by offer. I figure I could use some "adult supervision" when breaking in the new BB gun. Otta be able to break in and drop chart at the same time? "

Roy,

When you goin' on that trip to pick up that .375 AM BB gun? (I'm pretty sure the 338AX should be shipped to me this week.) I'll be over in MT for about a week during the first half of August and I'll be about 2.5 hrs away from Fort Shaw and Townsend. Not sure if it would work out, but it sure would be great to meet you guys and do a little shooting!

 

[Broz]

Broz,

What is the count through your LP as of now?

Iwould have to count the bag of empties but I am somewhere around the 850 mark or just over it.

Thanks my friend!

Jeff

 

[Broz]

From Roy:

"Jeff,

Great summary!!

Its kind of nice when after the brain turns to mush, a point is reached where it becomes intolerable. The you stepped up to the plate, took it to the next level (broke the barrier so to speak) and whooo Hooo you're spot on. Great work!

I'm hoping to make a tour of MT along the I-15 corridor with the trip being centered on Ft. Shaw. I figure I'd take advantage of your stop by offer. I figure I could use some "adult supervision" when breaking in the new BB gun. Otta be able to break in and drop chart at the same time? "

Roy,

When you goin' on that trip to pick up that .375 AM BB gun? (I'm pretty sure the 338AX should be shipped to me this week.) I'll be over in MT for about a week during the first half of August and I'll be about 2.5 hrs away from Fort Shaw and Townsend. Not sure if it would work out, but it sure would be great to meet you guys and do a little shooting!

Now that would be cool!!

Jeff