Headspace Woes

[Hikinghunter]

trying out my type s dies for the first time (newbie to hand loading). I'm having a terrible time getting my headspace right.

Set everything up per Eric cortina's YouTube video. Got my die worked in with a nice .002 bump. Tested out my brass in the rifle with a piece of tape to confirm, etc. everything looked good to go.

So I go along re-sizing my brass. The first one measures .002 bump. The second .0005, the third .001, and the 4th doesnt resize at all. So I fiddle around with the die and seem to keep chasing it (screwing the die in a bit more every few resizings to get a bump) finally the thing seemed to "settle", but by then I'm bumping .004. I figure it's not the end of the world, so I start again and re-size everything so I'm at least consistent.

At the end of it all, my setup is giving me shoulder bumps between of .004 to .006. So it sizes plus or minus 1 thou. I guess that was the original problem.

Wondering if this is unusual. I'm using a Lyman t-mag 2 press, which is admittedly not the best. It does have a pretty fair amount of cam-over.

Any thoughts on how to get better consistently?

 

[Carlos88]

New brass? If so, you need to "fireform" them and then start fiddling with your die.

 

[Hikinghunter]

New brass? If so, you need to "fireform" them and then start fiddling with your die.

Once fired. Should have mentioned that.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Lube the cases consistently. This can make a big difference.

 

[Carlos88]

What Lance said. I lube about halfway down the case to the base, then just a tad inside the neck. The lube needs to be used sparingly. Just barely enough to do the job.

How is the expander ball? Any drag on the way out? Oh and clean your die because lube will be going north every time you use it.

 

[Hikinghunter]

What Lance said. I lube about halfway down the case to the base, then just a tad inside the neck. The lube needs to be used sparingly. Just barely enough to do the job.

How is the expander ball? Any drag on the way out? Oh and clean your die because lube will be going north every time you use it.

Ah, that may be the culprit. I definitely wasn't being sparing with the lube.

No expander ball, have the decapping pin rod installed that doesn't have the ball. So just using the bushing to size. It's what the Eric cortina video said to do

 

[Mike6158]

I don't use an expander ball anymore either.
Full length sizing die with neck bushing? Not just neck sizing? Annealing? Sometimes it takes more than one firing for brass to "settle down". Brass springs back. For example, I let a loading tray of brass that was full length sized with a neck bushing, then mandrel sized, sit overnight recently. I had checked the neck I.D. with a minus gauge pin after sizing and they were right where I wanted them. The following afternoon they had moved (closed down in this case). They were once fired Lapua cases annealed with my AMP annealer, and sized with Eriks 6.5 PRC die. I randomly checked the head space, that was perfect when I finished, and that had moved a little as well but not enough to resize them.

 

[Bob Wright]

trying out my type s dies for the first time (newbie to hand loading). I'm having a terrible time getting my headspace right.

Set everything up per Eric cortina's YouTube video. Got my die worked in with a nice .002 bump. Tested out my brass in the rifle with a piece of tape to confirm, etc. everything looked good to go.

So I go along re-sizing my brass. The first one measures .002 bump. The second .0005, the third .001, and the 4th doesnt resize at all. So I fiddle around with the die and seem to keep chasing it (screwing the die in a bit more every few resizings to get a bump) finally the thing seemed to "settle", but by then I'm bumping .004. I figure it's not the end of the world, so I start again and re-size everything so I'm at least consistent.

At the end of it all, my setup is giving me shoulder bumps between of .004 to .006. So it sizes plus or minus 1 thou. I guess that was the original problem.

Wondering if this is unusual. I'm using a Lyman t-mag 2 press, which is admittedly not the best. It does have a pretty fair amount of cam-over.

Any thoughts on how to get better consistently?

What cartridge is it?

 

[MagnumManiac]

Your brass isn't at chamber size yet, so you could be sizing as much as .008" unnecessarily.
I fire all of my brass 3 times with just neck sizing, then I size my brass .002" which gives me an actual .0015" head clearance.
When your brass becomes stable, sizing shouldn't vary more than .001", .0005" is preferred.

Cheers.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

What lube are you using? I found different lubes do different things.

 

[marshalldodge]

Lube, brass hardness, and a consistent handle pull are all things that I have seen affect shoulder bump.

I use Imperial size wax and don't put any on the shoulder. A thin coating on the body, and a touch around the neck works well for me.

 

[swampbug]

What MagnumManiac says.
You have to fire the brass a couple of times to get them all fully sized to your chamber. The bolt should be tight on closing. Then set your headspace.

 

[Hikinghunter]

This is interesting stuff.

answers:
-28nos
-once-fired Peterson brass
-using the Lyman case lube kit.

Question:
Understood that over-working brass isn't great for its lifespan. Will my batch of brass bumped back to a range of .004 to .006 give me a wildly huge ES, though? (within the batch, not mixed in with other brass).

Right now I have 20 pcs once-fired (bumped back as described above) and 50 pcs new brass. My hope is that I can do load development with these 70 pcs, and whatever powder/bullet/primer combo performs well from my new and once-fired brass will likely also perform well with the brass once its " broken in" as swampbug says above (and once ive figured out how to re-size it to a perfect .002.)

Is it like my 50 pcs of new brass, or the 20pcs once-fired brass with a shoulder bump of .005 is going to give me an ES of 50fps, whereas stuff that has been bumped back perfectly to .002 is going to give me a single-digit ES?

Honestly, as a newbie, I'm trying to meet an achievable standard, and improve as I go. I'm trying to work up a load that shoots sub-moa with an ES of 30 or less. Is that achievable with new brass, and the brass I just re-sized (as long as I don't mix the two)?

 

[Buckskinner]

Ahhhhh, if ES was that simple... Lots of variables go into finding a good load and ES is just one of them and lots of variable go into finding a low ES as well.