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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
Flat shooting Elk gun?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 67297" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Ric,</p><p></p><p>I would agree and disagree with you at the same time, see how I play both sides of the fence /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!</p><p></p><p>If I were intentinally setting up in an area to harvest heavy game at ranges well past 1000 yards I would say that the larger frontal area of the 338 class bullets may have benefits over the 7mm.</p><p></p><p>Also, on wounded or excited game, the larger frontal area may also have a slight advantage.</p><p></p><p>But!!</p><p></p><p>For hunting game out to even 1000 yards when that game is unexcited and calm, I feel a properly built 7mm bullet has more then enough to cleanly and consistantly harvest game up to mature bull elk.</p><p></p><p>We all know elk are tough critters and we have all seen or heard about instances where they have taken extreme punishment and still put up a fit to get away. Just the nature of the beast. They have a very strong will to live. That said, in my opinion, perhaps the most difficult animal to anchor is a mature whitetail buck in full rut. Now I am talking the norther sub species which routinely weight 300 lbs or more. </p><p></p><p>I personally have hammered a single whitetail three times in teh chest cavity with a 300 RUM using a 180 gr Ballistic Tip and he regained his feet after each shot. The first took his offside shoulder out and the other two were just behind the shoulder.</p><p></p><p>Also, I have dropped big mature whitetails with a single neck shot with a whimpy 22-250 at 300 yards and there was hardly even a twitch.</p><p></p><p>Point is, in the hunting fields, there is no combination of bullet that will drop a big game animal EVERYTIME.</p><p></p><p>I know an old timer that used a 375 H7H for elk all of his life and loved it. He hunted in heavy cover and semi open country where shots were at max 250 yards and he never lose his bull, he also said he never had one drop at the shot either. He used the 300 gr Parition loaded to just shy of 2600 fps.</p><p></p><p>In my way of thinking, if you take a quality bullet that is accurte and put it though the vitals of a bull elk, he is dead. He may cover 100 yards, possible a bit more, but he is dead on his feet.</p><p></p><p>I am not a fan of shooting till the animal is on the ground. I personally have seen where a mortally wounded animal was basically dead on his feet when a second shot was taken and startled the animal into an adreniline rush and created much more of a fuss then was really needed.</p><p></p><p>One thing to remember is that these 200 gr 7mm bullets intended for game will be built on heavy jackets specifically designed for the velocity range of the 7mm Allen Mag. I do not know if Richard has settled on a jacket thickness yet but I know full well that the production bullets will have no problem venting a bull elk at any range.</p><p></p><p>We all like numbers here, lets forget about B.C. for a while and talk about a number that actually has much more to do with big game hunting, Sectional Density.</p><p></p><p>These 200 gr 7mm pills will have a sectional density of .354 which is extremely high. Compare that with a 250 gr .338 bullet at .312 or a 300 gr .375 bullet at just over .300.</p><p></p><p>Given similiar bullet construction(jacket thickness, alloy and lead alloy) The 7mm will far out penetrate the larger diameter bullets. Some may say that is simply because of frontal area but it is also because of higher S.D.</p><p></p><p>Also the velocity of the bullet will be much higher as it travels through the target animal which creates a larger area of tissue damage.</p><p></p><p>If we were talking 160 gr 7mm bullets I would agree with you 100% for long range big game hunting but with these super bullets if you will, they place the 7mm into a totally different catagory of performance ballistically and terminally.</p><p></p><p>Good Shooting!!</p><p></p><p>Kirby Allen(50)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 67297, member: 10"] Ric, I would agree and disagree with you at the same time, see how I play both sides of the fence [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!! If I were intentinally setting up in an area to harvest heavy game at ranges well past 1000 yards I would say that the larger frontal area of the 338 class bullets may have benefits over the 7mm. Also, on wounded or excited game, the larger frontal area may also have a slight advantage. But!! For hunting game out to even 1000 yards when that game is unexcited and calm, I feel a properly built 7mm bullet has more then enough to cleanly and consistantly harvest game up to mature bull elk. We all know elk are tough critters and we have all seen or heard about instances where they have taken extreme punishment and still put up a fit to get away. Just the nature of the beast. They have a very strong will to live. That said, in my opinion, perhaps the most difficult animal to anchor is a mature whitetail buck in full rut. Now I am talking the norther sub species which routinely weight 300 lbs or more. I personally have hammered a single whitetail three times in teh chest cavity with a 300 RUM using a 180 gr Ballistic Tip and he regained his feet after each shot. The first took his offside shoulder out and the other two were just behind the shoulder. Also, I have dropped big mature whitetails with a single neck shot with a whimpy 22-250 at 300 yards and there was hardly even a twitch. Point is, in the hunting fields, there is no combination of bullet that will drop a big game animal EVERYTIME. I know an old timer that used a 375 H7H for elk all of his life and loved it. He hunted in heavy cover and semi open country where shots were at max 250 yards and he never lose his bull, he also said he never had one drop at the shot either. He used the 300 gr Parition loaded to just shy of 2600 fps. In my way of thinking, if you take a quality bullet that is accurte and put it though the vitals of a bull elk, he is dead. He may cover 100 yards, possible a bit more, but he is dead on his feet. I am not a fan of shooting till the animal is on the ground. I personally have seen where a mortally wounded animal was basically dead on his feet when a second shot was taken and startled the animal into an adreniline rush and created much more of a fuss then was really needed. One thing to remember is that these 200 gr 7mm bullets intended for game will be built on heavy jackets specifically designed for the velocity range of the 7mm Allen Mag. I do not know if Richard has settled on a jacket thickness yet but I know full well that the production bullets will have no problem venting a bull elk at any range. We all like numbers here, lets forget about B.C. for a while and talk about a number that actually has much more to do with big game hunting, Sectional Density. These 200 gr 7mm pills will have a sectional density of .354 which is extremely high. Compare that with a 250 gr .338 bullet at .312 or a 300 gr .375 bullet at just over .300. Given similiar bullet construction(jacket thickness, alloy and lead alloy) The 7mm will far out penetrate the larger diameter bullets. Some may say that is simply because of frontal area but it is also because of higher S.D. Also the velocity of the bullet will be much higher as it travels through the target animal which creates a larger area of tissue damage. If we were talking 160 gr 7mm bullets I would agree with you 100% for long range big game hunting but with these super bullets if you will, they place the 7mm into a totally different catagory of performance ballistically and terminally. Good Shooting!! Kirby Allen(50) [/QUOTE]
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