Fire Forming to harden case heads....do you?

[sedancowboy]

@sedancowboy

So you would do load work up right away and don't feel it would extend the brass life at all? Then just modify load after barrel speed up, and then on 1x fired brass?

Yes that is correct.

 

[Mikecr]

I've never done it, but I believe you could work harden the webs. That connected may move less from heads.
I think it would take a lower power shot, followed with small base sizing, and then one more lower power shot with little or no sizing, before a third full power shot. This, taking ~3shts to fully fireform. Then size normally per your plan.

What I do instead is mitigate high web yielding through strong breech support, and keeping loads below tested MyMax.
MyMax being a measured step change at weblines from plateau while going up in pressures. I do it with new/culled cases.
It has so far exactly matched SAAMI max pressures as calculated by QL. I don't understand how that would be. Maybe luck.
I do this because brass wants to go where it's been. So I want to keep it from going -where I do not want it -to want to go! !!
Hopefully that makes sense

 

[lancetkenyon]

Is your brass the old 30° shoulder or the new 40° shoulder? If the old 30° style, the fire forming will do the job.

If the new 40°....

Brass is a consumable. So are barrels. I would rather have brass last 1 firing less and save 200 rounds down the bore of an expensive barrel myself. Plus, components right now are hard to find and expensive.

Unless you want to build a light load to play with.

I have never loaded a light load to harden the head. Only to fire form a wildcat.

 

[BoomFlop]

@lancetkenyon it is new 40° shoulder. I agree with everything you are saying as long as it is just 1 firing. I however, do not want to loose my brass after 1 firing as some people are saying.

 

[parshal]

I just find a load with new brass and use it for the life of the barrel. If it's a tight chamber I never notice a difference. I have a 300 PRC that grows .006" so I assume I'll need to double-check the load with once-fired.

The only reason I fireform brass in my 65SS is because mine has the 30 degree shoulder.

 

[Bushersam]

It's the only way to get consistency out of Nosler brass you have to fire form the case head it's so soft.

 

[PatriotHenry]

My 7 Sherman Short should be finished any day now. I have 200 pc of ADG brass from Rich, 2000 Fed 210m, 8lb RL 26 and 1000 Berger 180 Hybrids to start with. My question is, I was planning on firing 56 gr of RL 26 (minimum charge) to case harden the head. It will form to my chamber as well, however, the main reason would be to harden the head to make the brass last longer.

Thoughts? Do you? Waste of time?

Thanks all,
Steve

I would not waste your time working anything up until break in. Use very light loads with something other than your prized RL26 and Bergers. And when you do start load development, I would start lower than 56 grains with a 180. I do not like the headstamp on Rich's brass. There is very little area without letters to be able to see ejector marks. In the future is he would shorten it to "SS" that would help greatly for reading pressure better. I have also noticed that once you hit pressure you are on a fine line with this cartridge. So use caution if running near max.

I had a fantastic load for the 6.5SS with the 153.5 Berger developed last fall, 65-70 degree weather. New case, GM215M primer and 58gr of RL26. 3024 ave MV out of a 24 tube, single digit SD and ES, and ragged hole 3 shot groups if I did my part. To say the least I was ecstatic. So this early spring 32-35 degree weather. Went to the range to verify this load again, and BLEW a primer! In 35 years of reloading I have NEVER blown a primer. That got me a bit spooked. I have since been trying to find a good lower node with H1000. I have heard RL26 gets weird above 85-90 degrees, but 32....? So like I said above use some powder in the H4831 or slower range that you may have on hand and some cheap bullets to get 100-150 down the tube and get your brass once fired. Then start LOW and work up with the good stuff.

I separated 22 once fired cases to do my load work with and to test how many firings I could get. I am down to 18 of those that will still hold a primer. They are 5X now. I started getting "Clickers" after 3X, after 4X some are very hard to get the bolt open that last little bit. So my conclusion is NOT running max you should get 4-5X firings out of this brass.

Not so sure about this claim of the case hardening? I would leave that debate up to the Scientific Gurus.

I have wrecked 18 pieces, possibly more of my 6.5SS brass by chasing velocity on the 1st firing. Plus I think the claims for the SS in general are only obtainable "if" you wreck your brass. At least in my experiences so far in my rifle. However every one is different.

Not trying to bash the cartridge in any way. I like it overall, and will be doing another barrel in this chambering.

This was my first time to play with a "Wildcat".

Good luck.

PH

 

[Calvin45]

Yes, a lot of people do it to "season" their brass while they break in the barrel waiting for it to speed up and fire form brass. Many use non prime components like bulk blem bullets and an easy to find powder, not RL 26

Did not know about this. Interesting. Of course I've also never bothered with barrel break in

 

[parshal]

Of course I've also never bothered with barrel break in

Neither do I. I shot an NRL Hunter match this past weekend with a 65 Creed that had 20 rounds on the barrel. I showed up with a load from a different barrel and different primers with no idea what the velocity would be.

 

[quigley257]

I read about this a while back and can not remember where. The guy that wrote the article seemed to have good knowledge about reloading and fire forming cases. I am going to do this with my Lapua brand 300 PRC and 338 Rogue brass. The Rogue brass was fire formed using pretty sedate 338 Lapua Mag load data with old 250gr bullets jammed into the lands. The PRC is of course already formed, but I'll run a low node on the first firing to break in the barrel and set my die for a minimal shoulder bump. Hopefully this will allow pushing higher nodes without fear of loose primer pockets.

 

[baldhunter]

The question about hardening the case head is a good one.I've run into case head expansion with soft Norma brass when running it near max loads.I've had to reduce my load a grain or two with the Norma brass to keep my primer pockets from expanding too much after first firing.I've never had an issue with Remington or Winchester brass,only the Norma.A brass case is thinner at the neck and gets thicker as it goes towards the case head.The case neck will harden usually after four or five firing,but I can't say one way or another whether the case head it's self hardens more,I'd almost think the case head starts to expand more after multiple firings and that is the part of the case that doesn't go through the sizing die.I think the best option with soft brass is,keep your load pressure down a little to save your brass.

 

[lancetkenyon]

@lancetkenyon it is new 40° shoulder. I agree with everything you are saying as long as it is just 1 firing. I however, do not want to loose my brass after 1 firing as some people are saying.

If people are losing brass in one firing, they are running the case WAY too hot!

In a 24", I am pushing a 184 Hyb @ 2838fps w. N565, and have 3 firings on some of my first 50 pcs. Primer pockets are still tight.

 

[Forcedoutage]

Have or have had 5 Sherman's and with their brass I always load a light load to fully form the case before any load work up. That's in the SS, SST and Max cartridges. If you don't you will loosen primer pockets quick. I think it has more to do with people thinking the brass is 100% fully formed and running too high a pressure at first really, but doing a light run with first firings works for me.

 

[Calvin45]

Yeah I can see the logic…don't know why anyone would need to further toughen lapua, adg, or Peterson at all! Or Winchester for that matter! As the @lancetkenyon states, if you're loosing pockets on round one, esp
With those brands of brass, STOP!!!!!

Now i can see the merit of wanting tougher heads on Norma, Nosler, ppu, and especially federal brass - federal is the worst of both worlds, it's heavy and has less capacity like Peterson but it's weaker and softer than…well all of them!