Elk Caliber?

[drtony]

Sounds like if my weatherby is a no go, I should put off the creedmoor and get the 300 WM or 7 mm mag. Thinking x bolt pro long range! I just really hate investing more money into a second big magnum when it's too much gun for my area!

I really appreciate all the comments and knowledge/experience you all have shared!

 

[tim_w]

Is the 6.5 creed enough for large Elk 400-500 yd? Yes with proper placement where it does not need long body penetration to reach target vitals. You are using the higher SD like the 140s with high BC to keep the impact vel and energy up; say the 147 eldm @ 2700+ as an example.

Would you be better served by a larger caliber with more powder? Yes without a doubt. IMO you should never plan to use what needs to have a ideal shot to be sure of a clean kill but use what can bring then down if things are not perfect or they are not in that perfect broad-side pose. obviously this has to be balanced by recoil tolerance etc. Even a 338 winmag or more powerful @ a mere 100 yd will lead to a run away if you bugger the shot real good.

I would think if 6.5 is the caliber choice, something a bit more overbore for the cartridge would be a better choice, Norma, WSM, RSAUM, SS etc..

 

[drtony]

Is the 6.5 creed enough for large Elk 400-500 yd? Yes with proper placement where it does not need long body penetration to reach target vitals. You are using the higher SD like the 140s with high BC to keep the impact vel and energy up; say the 147 eldm @ 2700+ as an example.

Would you be better served by a larger caliber with more powder? Yes without a doubt. IMO you should never plan to use what needs to have a ideal shot to be sure of a clean kill but use what can bring then down if things are not perfect or they are not in that perfect broad-side pose. obviously this has to be balanced by recoil tolerance etc. Even a 338 winmag or more powerful @ a mere 100 yd will lead to a run away if you bugger the shot real good.

I would think if 6.5 is the caliber choice, something a bit more overbore for the cartridge would be a better choice, Norma, WSM, RSAUM, SS etc..

I really have my heart set on the 6.5 CM. Exactly what you said has been my hesitation with that caliber. It sounds like I might just have to bite the bullet and get a second bug magnum before I get my creedmoor.

 

[Bravo 4]

Gonna echo what others have said:
A 6.5 CM will kill an elk, but I have seen elk absorb some serious lead and not flinch. Plus I tend to think worst case, not best case.

A week before heading to Colorado last year for an elk hunt my .338 RUM crapped the bed on me. I bought a Ruger American in 30-06 (no lefty magnum cartridges) and have been really impressed with it. Real light and super accurate with the only two loads I've tried, 210 Bergers and now 166 grain Hammer Hunters. Was gonna sell it after the hunt but decided to keep it, if nothing else as a backup. That was $370 well spent. Wish it were a .300 WinMag, but I just won't shoot it as far.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Sell the Weatherby to fund your new hunting rifle... I recommend a Christiansen Arms Ridgeline in 7mm RemMag, Remington AWR in 7mm RemMag, or a X-Bolt HC LR in 7mm RemMag.

And then get you the Rem 700 5R Gen II in 6.5 CM for your target rifle.

If you want a 300WM, then i recommend getting yourself one of these... That way you'd have a big brother/little brother set of Rem 700 5R Milspecs.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...Bolt+300+Winchester+Magnum+26+3+1+Synthetic+H

 

[WildRose]

Is the 6.5 CM "enough" caliber for elk hunting out to 400-500 yards? Or would I be better served with a 300 WM or 7mm Mag? The large caliber would have a single use: hunting in the west which may not happen too often. The 6.5CM will have the ability to be used closer to where I live and can hunt on a more regular basis. But, I for sure have an elk tag and need a gun that can get that job done first and foremost!

It would just be nice if the 6.5CM can do both

Also, I am aware that shot placement is everything. But I want to have leeway in case of less than perfect situations.

I wouldn't recommend it but if you shoot the right bullet and put it in the right spot it will get the job done. You just have far less margin of error than you'd have shooting something faster and or larger.

The 7mm RM, 28 nosler or other magnum 7 or anything in the 300wm class or faster .30 would definitely give you a much wider margin of safety.

The recoil of the 7mmRM isn't bad and it's a fantastic caliber for coyotes, deer, hogs etc and will definitely kill elk with confidence.

 

[drtony]

I wouldn't recommend it but if you shoot the right bullet and put it in the right spot it will get the job done. You just have far less margin of error than you'd have shooting something faster and or larger.

The 7mm RM, 28 nosler or other magnum 7 or anything in the 300wm class or faster .30 would definitely give you a much wider margin of safety.

The recoil of the 7mmRM isn't bad and it's a fantastic caliber for coyotes, deer, hogs etc and will definitely kill elk with confidence.

That's interesting, you are the first person to recommend 28 Nosler. That was my caliber of choice before buying the Weatherby. The only reason I didn't get the 28 Nosler: I don't know if it's going to be popular enough to stick around 10-20 years from now. Also, I couldn't find a single place that had ammunition!

I was under the impression 7mm mag and up is a lot of overkill for hunting white tails in northern MN?

 

[jbaldon71]

The creedmoor will get it done all day! Great choices in bullets for it, Barnes, Nosler, Berger, Swift and so on

 

[BJH]

I was under the impression 7mm mag and up is a lot of overkill for hunting white tails in northern MN?

Not at all. The 7MM family of bullets range from 120 to 200 grains. You can load light for smaller stuff and heavy for an elk hunt. The bullet selection out there will cover all fronts. The same can be said for the .308" diameter family. I hunt exclusively with 7mm caliber cartridges and have had great success. I hunt in the western states every year as this is where i call home. And have killed everything from coyotes to buffalo with my 7s. Most people tell me that a 30 cal is required for an elk hunt. But i have watched them drop in their tracks out to 1,000 yards from a 7. As far as an "all-around" cartridge..in my opinion..the 7mm Rem Mag will fill every niche you would need. The 28 Nosler will do all of those things just a lot faster then the Rem Mag. It is a cool round.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I would have no issues using 7RM on NC whitetail. I personally like 300 for big game and .30-06 for whitetail.

I am hesitant on the noslers for WT because I feel like the extra speed could enhance meat loss on the little guys

 

[mark scott]

As many have already pointed out, Elk are extremely tough animals that can take a solid hit and keep on going. They are resilient and may put a lot of distance between you and them with a poorly placed shot or poor bullet performance. Shoulder shots can and do result in some level of bullet destruction and/or directional change. It is essential that the bullet retain enough energy/velocity after traveling 500-600 yards to produce terminal destruction. I own a 6.5 CM as well, but would never consider it for Elk hunting at that distance. I believe that anyone that has lost an Elk due to any of the unthinkable things that can happen in that split second when pulling the trigger will tell you that you need every "Ace" in your hand. Personally, I have lost an Elk and it is a very sick demoralizing feeling that stays with you for at least 10 years that I know of. If you are questioning the ability of a 6.5 before going in the woods, leave it at home, its not for you. Shooting in the mountains of Colorado/Wyoming/Canada is never like shooting at the range. Confidence in you rifle is very important.

I have killed Elk with the 300 WM and they certainly work as will most of the 300's, if you do your part. For Elk hunting, I would never use less than a 180 or 190 grain bullet ion the 300 WM. I have never hunted with the 7mm RM, thus I cannot comment. I do possess the 7mm STW's and certainly have no problem using them with the right bullet. Many will call me "Old School", but today, I still hunt with a Remington 8mm Magnum with 200 grain Barnes Bullets or Woodleigh's. It is old, it is powerful and always brings about an immediate reaction. Thus, I do have the utmost confidence in my weapon, if I do my part. My better half uses a 325 WSM, due to the reduced recoil. She is an impressive shot, but has not connected with an Elk, yet. As one African hunter famously said; "Take enough gun".
You will not be sorry!

I don't know where you are hunting, but it is important to note that Elk usually inhabit the same areas that fury critters with sharp teeth and claws call home. I would not want to surprise an unhappy hungry bear or agitated cat with a long tail standing over a kill with my 6.5. It can be a long walk back to camp in the dark in big bear country.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I have killed a couple elk with a 6.5x47 Lapua and watched my dad kill a couple with a 6.5 Creedmoor. They definately dont kill as well as a .300 magnum but every elk still died. My wife killed a cow moose with the same 6.5x47L but moose dont tent to run off like elk.

BTW a 6.5 Creedmoor is basically the equivalent to a .270win with 130gr bullets at longer ranges. The much higher BC of the 140+gr 6.5 bullets catch the faster moving lower BC .270/130 by about 500yds. I watched a buddy shoot 2 elk with a .270win and 130 Partitions at over 500yds. Both took 2 shots but both died in close proximity to where the first shot was. I'm not advocating the use of a 6.5 for elk but they can and will kill elk every year. I've shot 3 with my 6.5-300wm and the additional speed makes a big difference in small calibers. I personally prefer .30 calibers and up. A buddy and I usually shoot 2 to 3 elk each per year so we get to see how a lot of different bullets and calibers perform. Since I build my own guns I've killed elk with calibers from 6.5x47L to .416 Rem mag and there is no replacement for displacement just like in motors.

I would look at a Christensen 300wm for a factory gun, most shoot extemely well. Or better yet have a custom built. You could still get a custom done before hunting season with the right approach and planning.

 

[RevJim]

A braked 300WM with 180 Barnes is very easy to shoot, and penetrates from very severe angles. I have killed many 'elk sized" Plains Game in South Africa & Namibia with that combo, furthest shot was about 375 on both Gemsbok and one springbok. the rest were all under 250yds. I also used a 300WM with plain Federal Blue Box 150gr Sierra pro Hunters on little Hill Country deer at under 100yds...they acted like Partitions, no meat loss! many do the same thing with the 7mm Rem Mag, so its a toss up. But agree, for thick skinned/heavy muscled/big bone critters, you want plenty of power. Have a ball though!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

This has been a great thread!

I will add that there is no such thing as over gunned. There is such a thing as poor bullet choice no matter what cartridge you are using. I have been consistent in this thinking since long before I became a bullet maker. Someone early in the thread mentioned a bull that absorbed a close range shot. Sometimes strange things happen, but I am going to venture to guess that he either had a bullet that failed to deform properly or a bullet that shed too much weight with the high vel impact to penetrate deep enough and still retain enough vel once into the vitals to do enough damage to cause the needed trauma for quick blogs loss.

As a bullet maker I have learned that bullets that are marginally stable but still shoot accurately will have a higher probability of failure to track straightand deform properly. A 1.5sg or higher calculated at standard atmosphere at sea level, well greatly increase consistent bullet performance. Know the distance that your setup will retain at least 1800fps and limit yourself to that shot distance. And finally when it comes to elk, don't stop putting bullets in an elk until it is of its feet. If it is of its feet and still breathing, be prepared to shoot again. Don't get off your rifle until it is dead.

Steve