lyle2231
Well-Known Member
I've had good luck with the rcbs. P-mic.
FWIW
Digital Headspace Gauge
- Thread starter barrycuda
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FWIW
JustMe2
Well-Known Member
I doubt aligning the screw with a mark on your brass would be as accurate and repeatable as using the Hornady bushings or as fast to change the setup. But if that's close enough for you, go for it. The Hornady tool also has other uses like measuring concentricity of bullets in the loaded brass, etc. Don't know the price difference between the 2 tools, but these are some things to consider.
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eschafer
Well-Known Member
Regarding The Larry Willis, IT Headspace Gauge:
Dedicate one case for each caliber as your "standard"... your "standard" for each caliber is sized exactly as you would have sized all other brass for that caliber... mark, put standards away safe where they won't be consumed... when you want to check reloads done prior for a certain caliber, or size more brass for future reloads, measure your standard, zero the unit on it, then measure your reload... doesn't matter where the adjustment screw was, ever, just as long as you measure standard and cases in question the same... IT Headspace gauge is not a "Headspace Gauge" as it's a "Comparator"... The number it provides you is only relevant to comparisons... The Hornady unit does the exact same thing, except, reloaders think the number it proivides is an empirical measurement.... It is not... Both are "Comparators".. I use the Larry Willis device... Works very well and very fast... Just elevate it near eye level as your neck will quickly become sore looking at it, if you don't.....
Dedicate one case for each caliber as your "standard"... your "standard" for each caliber is sized exactly as you would have sized all other brass for that caliber... mark, put standards away safe where they won't be consumed... when you want to check reloads done prior for a certain caliber, or size more brass for future reloads, measure your standard, zero the unit on it, then measure your reload... doesn't matter where the adjustment screw was, ever, just as long as you measure standard and cases in question the same... IT Headspace gauge is not a "Headspace Gauge" as it's a "Comparator"... The number it provides you is only relevant to comparisons... The Hornady unit does the exact same thing, except, reloaders think the number it proivides is an empirical measurement.... It is not... Both are "Comparators".. I use the Larry Willis device... Works very well and very fast... Just elevate it near eye level as your neck will quickly become sore looking at it, if you don't.....
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misterc01
Well-Known Member
I have found that calibrating my brass means it is repeatable - the goal of any reloading process. IMHO "close enough" may not BE enough. Because of the sharp edge on the Hornady bushing, it can result in an erroneous reading. That is why, regardless of what tool use, I ALWAYS cross check it with the another, such as my Sinclair with the beveled edge, and vice versa. Or I use other measuring tools at my disposal such as my RCBS Precision Mic, or Forster Datum Dial kit. I have enough data in my reloading logs over time that I am confident in my brass measurements. And, as in any reloading processes, we each decide what works best for us. am sure every member on the forum does the same.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Midway seems to label things in that way when they don't have a restock date.
The Hornady Station is a nice, heavy base; it's got v-roller bed, and it's actually set up without a ton of extraneous junk on it. The draw backs to me at the dial is pretty cheap, and there doesn't seem to be a way to use a test indicator on the rollers. If they had a second clamp on the stem for one of those it would arguably be one of the best products on the market for the majority of loaders, and that's abnormally high praise of a Big Red product from me.
I would agree, except they insist on only offering the inserts in aluminum. Sinclair's were steel and IMO a better quality, if not actually any more precise at least more consistent.
The RCBS and LE Wilson mics are probably the most precise way of measuring this, but the repeatability of the Hornady/Sinclair system isn't as bad as I usually rag on them for being. I still much prefer my SAC comparators.
Love mine.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
The statement eschafer posted is important to more than just headspacing.
We should each hold a dummy round standard for each of our chambers.
For me, I have two. One exactly fully fire formed case, and one sized from there, with a bullet seated to tested best CBTO.
Where I have multiple bullets for a chamber, I have a dummy round with each bullet at it's best CBTO.
Most of the time I use a shouldered gizzy from a barrel cutoff for headspace measure. Since it's cut with the same reamer as a chamber, I keep it in a box with all other reloading items -specific to that chamber(including dummy rounds).
For CBTO Measure I'm content with a Sinclair 'Nut'. It's simple and just works really well for me.
I have a Willis comparator around here, and it would work fine with a quick zeroing on a dummy case. Must have bought it for another potential though, and I can't remember what that was right now... It's a nice tool
I have a lot of stuff that I bought #1 for the education, and #2 for future projects (sometimes both unrelated to reloading).
We should each hold a dummy round standard for each of our chambers.
For me, I have two. One exactly fully fire formed case, and one sized from there, with a bullet seated to tested best CBTO.
Where I have multiple bullets for a chamber, I have a dummy round with each bullet at it's best CBTO.
Most of the time I use a shouldered gizzy from a barrel cutoff for headspace measure. Since it's cut with the same reamer as a chamber, I keep it in a box with all other reloading items -specific to that chamber(including dummy rounds).
For CBTO Measure I'm content with a Sinclair 'Nut'. It's simple and just works really well for me.
I have a Willis comparator around here, and it would work fine with a quick zeroing on a dummy case. Must have bought it for another potential though, and I can't remember what that was right now... It's a nice tool
I have a lot of stuff that I bought #1 for the education, and #2 for future projects (sometimes both unrelated to reloading).
Feenix- Thanks for showing the Digital of Larry Willis. I will be getting myself one.
After following this thread with interest, I will offer my opinion. I really like the term "comparator". While I do use "dummy cases" for baselines in some scenarios, different bullets seating depths and such within the same caliber. With this gauge, and in my humblest opinion, the fired case IS your dummy case, and this tool will help you determine the measurement of shoulder bump you have or intend to use. The ultimate in KISS systems for this application, not to say other comparators can't provide the same data. Load different brand brass with the same load and check brass bounce back. Confirm lot number brass differences in once fired scenarios. It is a very good tool and not caliber specific. I get that it may not be repeatable historically, like did I set it in the exact same position as the last time I measured, probably not, but not going there.
Now, I have read some fireformed brass sometimes needs more than the first fire forming to get the true form of the chamber (don't argue the point, I didn't state this). This tool will help you in that regard. Fire form once-first time/keep a case, twice/keep a case and so on, base line on the first case then measure the others against the base line first case (by zeroing the gauge on it). Now you have data to determine whether this is necessary or not in your application. YMMV. And Thanks to everyone here for teaching me a bunch.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
The brass in one of my chambers did not need it's 1st bump until 8 firings.
But, it's more common for me that shoulder bumping is needed from 3 to 5 firings.
With 30deg shoulder angles it seems needed every time after 1st bump.
I've never seen brass fully fire form in just 1 or 2 shots
But, it's more common for me that shoulder bumping is needed from 3 to 5 firings.
With 30deg shoulder angles it seems needed every time after 1st bump.
I've never seen brass fully fire form in just 1 or 2 shots
MarkInPA
Well-Known Member
I bought the device and after trying it was disappointed. It seemed like a good idea until I tried to use it. My biggest complaint was fidgeting with the case to make sure the case head was sitting square on the base. Then trying to make sure the case neck was in the proper position inside the measuring device while the case head was still square on the base. Too much fidgeting and I never felt confident that I had everything just so before taking a measurement. Perhaps this could be improved by having some sort of bushing for the case head to fit into on the stand to ensure that it was sitting flat. Secondly, if it had something similar to a Sinclair beveled insert to measure with instead of fitting it inside the triangular piece with the screw on the shoulder. For me, I feel I can take much more accurate measurements with the calipers and inserts and do it much more quickly. Granted, you still need to spin it a bit to make sure it settles into the comparator and play with it a bit to make sure the case head is square on the other blade but, it seems easier than the Larry Willis tool. Anyone know of a alternative use for this tool? The gauge itself seems like a good quality tool. I also like the RCBS case Mic. Whidden Gun Works also makes a very nice case Mic that I think is easier to read and operate. I can get quick and repeatable results using both the RCBS and the Whidden case mics.
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Short Action Customs headspace tools are the best IMHO, and your description of how to use them is perfect. I have the tool you mentioned above and agree with you 100%.
PH
MarkInPA
Well-Known Member
The short action customs seems to be real popular right now. Do you know if they have any advantage over the Sinclair comparator inserts? The Sinclair is made out of stainless steel and it is machined with an angle to simulate the shoulder.
