Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

[Coyboy]

I'm curious what the purpose of the Kano is? If you plan on firing the next shot right away, is having a light coating of rust preventative in the barrel helping anything?

MSU, I feel that the kroil will act as a bit of a lubricant for the barrel kind of like oil in a piston cylinder. A cylinder is honed with a cross hatch pattern to hold some oil to lubricate the rings as they move. The kroil applied and then wiped with a dry patch will leave a lite film in the micro finish of the lapped barrel. This may or may not lessen the fouling during break-in, or help with the burnishing, but it sure can't hurt. If I assume that the carbon that collects in the "Valleys" of the microfinish actually preform a vital function, then I can surmise that a bit of kroil in those valleys may be benifital, until that carbon arrives. Can I prove it? No.

Most barrel makers are lapping with a abrasive grit of 100-150, this abrasive brakes down a bit as they lap, but the results of the lapping is a deffinate texture to the steel that will hold lubricant like a cylinder wall.

This kinda explains why I feel a 800-1200 grit bore polish is a bad thing, more surface contact with the bullet increased friction and pressure, and copper that galls or smears down the bore.

 

[Chas1]

Good article, enjoyed reading it. It's always nice to get different views on such a widely debated subject.

 

[7stw]

Jim, very good and informative article and one of the ones that always gets my attention. Through the years I have owned many rifles, and almost lost one due to IMPROPER cleaning. I have long since used only fitted bore guides and DEWEY coated rods and jags. I must admit though the frequentcy issue gets me somtimes on different rifles as some need cleaning at closer intervals, and some at longer intervals. My regiment for break in has always been exactly as you mentioned earlier. The solvents I use are shooters choice, JB bore cleaner, and I use 7.62 remover to CHECK myself after cleaning, then thouroughly rinse out after, then finish with a coat of kroil. P/S; kroil breaks down carbon build up in barrels during short storage. I typically clean only as much that is needed to give me back that FEEL that I know is the guns sweet spot, but am sometimes amazed at how much or how little it takes to get you there versus how many times the gun has been fired. Do you feel that JB bore cleaner can ruin a barrel? I have heard some horror stories. When you use , or if you use it, how and how much ? I just read a article on Brownells website that was E mailed about his technique. What is yours? Thanks againgun)

 

[Coyboy]

Jim, very good and informative article and one of the ones that always gets my attention. Through the years I have owned many rifles, and almost lost one due to IMPROPER cleaning. I have long since used only fitted bore guides and DEWEY coated rods and jags. I must admit though the frequentcy issue gets me somtimes on different rifles as some need cleaning at closer intervals, and some at longer intervals. My regiment for break in has always been exactly as you mentioned earlier. The solvents I use are shooters choice, JB bore cleaner, and I use 7.62 remover to CHECK myself after cleaning, then thouroughly rinse out after, then finish with a coat of kroil. P/S; kroil breaks down carbon build up in barrels during short storage. I typically clean only as much that is needed to give me back that FEEL that I know is the guns sweet spot, but am sometimes amazed at how much or how little it takes to get you there versus how many times the gun has been fired. Do you feel that JB bore cleaner can ruin a barrel? I have heard some horror stories. When you use , or if you use it, how and how much ? I just read a article on Brownells website that was E mailed about his technique. What is yours? Thanks againgun)

I avoid abrasive paste, and do not recomend there use for general cleaning in custom barrels. The only time I use an abrasive is if I have a BUILD UP of carbon. To be honest I mostly see this in AR-15 barrels that guys bring in for cleaning, (they will actually have a smooth solid black coating of carbon through out the bore groove) and the ocassional factory gun that was not cleaned for years.

Boreteck does remove carbon and if you clean your rifle as needed there should be no carbon build-up, unless the powder you are using is quite dirty. When I do use an abrasive (For carbon fouling only)it is for only 2-3 strokes with Iosso bore paste, as I stated earlier the fine abrasives in any paste will polish the barrel and alter the lapped finish that the barrel maker so carfully aplied to the bore during lapping. Generally though my custom barreled rifles will never see abrasive paste in there lifetime. The chemical copper removers are of such good quality that a properly conditioned barrel will clean up in less than 5 patches.

 

[TexasHunter]

Jim,

You are a courageous guy to wade into this particularly hot topic. Enjoyed meeting you at the VHA Jam last month. My own experience aligns very closely with yours. What my borescope has shown me is that the throat/leade (also known as the freebore) area on top of the lands cut by the reamer is far rougher than the freshly lapped top of the lands. Whats begins happening immediately after the first round is the smoothing out of this rough area of the throat. This is I think is the major source of initial fouling. And as you have accurately pointed out, the fouling trends down fairly rapidly during the break-in (3-5 rounds). How many rounds it takes is very dependent on the particular barrel even from the same maker. However, I have definitely noticed that button rifled barrels break in more quickly than cut rifled barrels, I think because they are more lapped by necessity than the average cut rifled barrel, which leads me to believe that the break-in is also smoothing out the rest of the barrel steel itself. (Note - I am not making a statement of preference for buttoned barrels, just referencing what happens during break in. What happens in a particular type of barrel as it heats, cools and recovers during extended shooting is another subject). At some point, the finish on top of the lands in the throat/leade begins to match the finish on the lands further forward and the barrel settles down to shooting consistently and fouling much less.

On the related issue of maintenance cleaning (post break-in), I learned something back in the 90s from my first long range tactical shooting instructor. It has to do with the concept of the cold bore shot. As has been stated a number of times in the other responses, competitors always shoot one to several foulers to "settle down" the tube prior to competing. The tactical military / LE shooter doesn't always have the same luxury. So they go to great lengths to monitor and document their particular rifle's unique clean/cold bore behavior. It is usually very consistent assuming they follow a disciplined repeatable cleaning protocol. What my instructor taught me was to develop a highly specific cleaning procedure at specific shot number intervals. For instance, 5 wet patches, 5 round trip strokes of a wet bronze brush, 5 wet patches then 5 dry patches after every 20 to 50 rounds. Each gun/barrel will respond differently to different numbers of the above. What his point was and what I've discovered is that once a specific procedure is determined for a given gun, the clean/cold bore shot will stay either in the group or very much closer to the group and is very repeatable. The reason for all this lies in the fact that you are never actually cleaning completely down to bare "copperless" steel. And since the primary point of this website is hunting and not competing, I think this concept might be quite useful for us long range hunters that can only really depend on the first cold bore shot going where we want it to go.

Best Regards
Dale Troutt

 

[Coyboy]

Welcome to LRH Dale, I'm sure you will like it here. Your experiece can aid many shooters.

Are you going back to VHJ next year?

 

[TexasHunter]

Thanks Jim,

I can't believe I didn't know about this forum before now.

I will most likely go back next year. I had a great time even with the humbling conditions. That was the best run match I think I've ever been to. Great setup and people. And those kids hustling to reset targets was awesome.


Best Regards
Dale

 

[Chas1]

Dale, welcome, glad to have you here. Lots of good folks and lots of good info. Enjoy.

 

[fj40mojo]

Jim,

I'm still in the process of breaking in my first custom rifle, a 6.5x55 built on a commercial '98 Mauser action with a premium air guaged 1:8 Douglas barrel and chambered with PT&G's 6.5x55 Match reamer. I started out cleaning after every round for the first 5, then after every 5 round string through the first 50 rounds down the tube. I'm using Outers foaming bore cleaner to get the initial carbon fouling, Montana Extreme Copper Killer, and Kroil. I can definitely see how a guy could be tempted to use the abrasives to speed up the project. Through the second 50 rounds I cleaned after every 10 rounds but now I am just cleaning after each shooting session of 30-50 rounds and have found that it is easier now and faster to clean than it was at any point during the initial 100 rounds and accuracy is pleasing to say the least. I'm using the same cleaning process and finding less fouling and fouling that comes out much easier.

I have a couple of factory rifle as well, neither is new by any means, that I did no break in on whatsoever. Just shot them and cleaned them once a year before putting them away. My question is can I go back now and improve the accuracy of those 2 other rifles by taking them from an absolute clean bore through the breakin process?

Thanks for the great article.

Mike

 

[retyc]

I have a couple of factory rifle as well, neither is new by any means, that I did no break in on whatsoever. Just shot them and cleaned them once a year before putting them away. My question is can I go back now and improve the accuracy of those 2 other rifles by taking them from an absolute clean bore through the breakin process?

Thanks for the great article.

Mike

I would love to know the answer to that question also....

 

[Coyboy]

I would love to know the answer to that question also....

Well it's a good question so lets talk a little bit about factory barrels.
I have seen very nice, and pretty ugly factory tubes. A bore scope of a new rifle can reviel any gross deficencys in a barrel. I have found the normal reamer marks but also lands completly torn away from what I asume must have been broken tooling, or improper handling at the factory. I also have seen the obvious unconcentric throats and beat up looking crowns. All these things can contribute to poor shooting of a factory barrel. As well as things that are not easily seen such as bore dimensional variences. Break-in may not make a problem barrel shoot any better if there if physical issues with the tube.

Barrel break in is a process that happens regardless of how we treat our barrel. Someone who shoots 100 rounds and then cleans may not be thinking about break in but the process of conditioning is taking place. By doing a shoot and clean we are trying to get the barrel to go into a state of easy cleaning/less fouling quicker than what would occur under normal use. In custom barrels it is much easier because the barrel maker lapped the barrel to a condition that left few to no anomilies in the bore.

So I would say it may be possible for a barrel that fouled from day one, and built up a layer of copper, to be cleaned to barrel steel and "re-broke in" I do not know how effective the results would be but it would not hurt.

One thing I have noticed during my factory rifle days was that most of the guns I had did not shoot there best until they were over 200 rounds fired, and that was after I noticed they started to clean up easier. A Ruger varmit in 22-250 in particular had been a good shooting rifle and I cleaned it about every 20-30 rounds and it always had lots of copper that was a pain to get out. I would guess I was at about 250-300 rounds when all of a sudden it started to clean much easier to the point that I could put over 100 rounds thru her and still have it shooting well. Before that time it had always shot well but not after the fouling built up. My guess is it uniformed and smoothed out to a point that fouling no longer built up as it had. I had not set out to break in this barrel it just happened on it's own.

I just recently had a customer send me 2 used 204 ruger barrels, one a factory savage and the other a shilen. He sent a 20 tactical reamer and wanted the better of the 2 barrels rechmbered/set back. I was thinking well it will be the shilen. Well after the bore scope I picked the savage barrel. It had been shot enough that all the usual tooling/reamer marks present in new savage barrrels were gone and the barrels finish resembled more of a lapped look from the bullets slowly abrading the steel so that the structure of the barrel was parrellel with the lands. The shilen just showed too much erosion for me to feel that it was worth the customers money to mess with. This fellow obviously new how to clean a barrel as no copper was present in either one and the savage barrel did not show any indication of abuse by abrasive paste.

Well the reports were good He was getting groups under .200" and placed 3rd in a local BR match.

 

[sib1948]

Thanks for this great article. I was indeed confused about barrel care as I am new into Long Range Shooting. I have seen no one else sum up the facts in such a logical way. Followed this advice in breaking in my Barrett MRAD and your advice worked to a tee. I am looking forward to years of good shooting.

 

[esshup]

Jim:

Thanks for the article. I read it when you first wrote it and it helped turn the light on.

I gave my nephew a Mossberg ATR in .270. I told him that we were going to break in the barrel and he gave me this look like I was talking about a 2 headed snake. After the first shot, he almost had to pound the patch down the bore, it was that tight. We did the 1 and clean for 10, then 3 and clean for 30. By the time the last 3 shots were run thru the tube, he could run the patch thru the tube easily, and it only took 5 patches to clean all the copper out. He's a believer now! We went thru almost 500 patches during the process, but it was worth it. After some load development he's shooting 3/8 moa with it. If it's calm out, and he's shooting from the bench, a 2" gong at 350 yds gets boring.

I've changed the solvents that I've used since you first published the article. Now I'm using Hoppes Elite for the carbon, and Montana Extreme Copper Killer (same as the old BMG50) Those 2 seem to work the best. Nickel plated jags and nylon brushes. I switched to those after chasing my tail for a day only to realize that the "copper" that I was seeing was from the jag/brush.

 

[J E Custom]

Thanks for the article Jim.

I came to the same conclusion about break in and use my bore scope to evaluate a barrel
before and after break in. I am not ridged about the number of shoot and cleans I do and because different barrel take different amounts of break in I let the barrel tell me when it is broke in.

Some have shone a marked improvement after 4 or 5 shots and some have taken 20 +shots
to come around. Some factory barrels continue to improve for 50 to 60 rounds. I have never
done over 20 shoot and cleans on these barrels and just go with the 5 shots and clean method.

Breaking in a barrel is a slow process but well worth the time and patience required.

Thanks again.

J E CUSTOM