Comparison of Long Range Cartridges?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by bwaites, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Does someone have a picture of the long range cartridges all line up together?

    .300 RUM, .338 RUM, .338 Edge, etc?

    I would realy appreciate seeing those!

    Bill
     
  2. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Here's one I took a couple years back. It's not exactly what you wanted but I need to get out of the sun for a few minutes so......

    Left to Right: .22LR, .223rem, .308win, .30-06, 7mmMag, .300RUM, .338RUM

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  3. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Sniper,

    Thanks!! That's a great start!!

    I'm considering a .338, and trying to decide on .338 Lapua, Edge, or ?

    Bill
     
  4. hogwild

    hogwild Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Ya might want to contact Fiftydriver about his 338AX. I'm having one built and can't wait to get it in hand.
     
  5. Down Under Hunter

    Down Under Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    912
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    G'day mate,

    I've just gone through all this myself and ended up on the edge. This was due to ease of making the rifle, brass, ballistics. I really thought about this one real hard. I have driven everyone on this site sick over the last 3 months with 338 questions. I ended up buying a sf 1 sendero 300 rum brand new. As soon as the gun arrives I am having it blueprinted, re crowned, 5 vent muzzle break trigger job, LAwton tactical bolt, wyatt centre feed ext mag box, DE adjust cheekpiece. I may order a Lawton 30" heavy flute barrel chambered in 338 edge to replace with. i just want to shoot the 300 a bit to see what she can do first. I don't really plan on shooting past the 1000 M mark. It will have a 30 moa rail and nxs nightforce 5-22 x 56 npr2 strapped on.

    The edge is ballistically awsome with the 300 smk, but even beter with wildcat 266-31 grn AL tipped bullets. Massive BC's and just in a world of their own. Fifty Driver can tell you more or get in touch with Shawn Carlock about the EDGE .

    Good luck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Thanks DownUnder!

    I have about decided on the .338 Edge, and have briefly discussed a build with Shawn Carlock, which is the way I'm leaning, but I was hoping for a comparison of all the big .300-.400 cartridges and maybe even some input on the benefits of each.

    Bill
     
  7. Curt

    Curt Member

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Bill is that you from over on the 65G site? Nice to see a fellow ARF outcast on the LR page! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm curt243 over there.

    Anyway, I have a 338 RUM XCR 700, I bought it to be a light weight mountain rifle with plenty of power to spare for Brown bear/Elk, and LR steel plate plinking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I may have bitten off more than I can chew though, see the rifle only clocks in at 9.5lbs with optics! Needless to say she jumps and kicks pretty bad. I hate muzzle brakes ect...but I may have no choice. I am extreamly happy with the way it shoots, it will print .5 moa groups with the 300g SMK's. Which ever one you decide on the large 338 cal rifles are impressive. Good luck with your decision.
     
  8. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    That's me alright.

    The 6.5G whet my appetite, and now I want to go big for some real long distance shooting.

    I was convinced I wanted a Lapua .338, but the more I read the more I like the .338 Edge and .338 Allen Xpress.

    The Edge builder, Shawn Carlock, is only about 130 miles away, and I'm hoping to look at one next week when I am over his way.

    Good to see you here, too!!

    Bill
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    bwaites,

    I'm betting you'll part with more than just gas money on that 130 mi trip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Whatever you do don't look at that 16# 338 AX that Shawn built. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And don't even thing about shooting either the Edge or AM. It'll ruin you and adversely affect me also as I heard awhile back that "Thou shalt not covet......" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Roy,

    Trust me, I am very scared about that! The good thing is that Shawn has told me there is a 6-8 month wait, so I feel like I don't have to make any snap decisions!

    I can't make up my mind between the Edge and AX, so I'm looking forward to actually talking with Shawn about those differences. (I was positive I wanted the Edge until I read Shawns comments about his AX!)

    Bill
     
  11. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,595
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    For your first big 338 I think the Edge first and later work up to the 338 AM,just my opion and it is the way that I am going,except that I am going 338 Laupa.......[​IMG]
     
  12. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Bwaites,

    First off, Shawns lightweight 338 is chambered in my 338 Allen Magnum, not my 338 Allen Xpress. There is a big difference between the two, around 300-400 fps with the 300 gr SMK. Shawns is the big dawg!!!!

    Shawns 338 Edge is probably the very best, high performance 338 magnum out there at this time. It offers the ability to drive the 300 gr SMK to an honest 2850 fps at comfortable velocity which is the full equal to anything the 338 Lapua can offer at same chamber pressures and barrel lengths.

    Brass is very cost effective and plenty strong for long case life if you do not really red line this round and to that point there is no need to do so.

    Necking up a 300 RUM case to 338 caliber is easy to do with a tapered expander and then your ready for full pressure loads, no fireforming needed in any way which is always a bonus.

    Accuracy wise, the 338 Edge is a serious weapon. I have shot with Shawn and he has shot my rifles, I have shot his, you will be very happy with a Defensive Edge stick in your hands. We played out to a mile or so and consistancy was very, very good. Shawns rifles are great rigs for sure.

    As far as load development, the work is already done, Shawn will offer you all you will need and there is no need to reinvent the wheel here. Just like my Allen Magnums, Shawn has ran his 338 Edge through the paces very hard and already tested pretty much everything out there and will offer that data to you.

    You will use very common powders and other componants for this round, nothing exotic. Barrel life, if you take care of your barrel is also VERY good for this class of round. It is not a finicky or fussy round either.

    All in all, my opinion is that the 338 Edge is the most user friendly high performance 338 wildcat out there that will chamber easily in any magnum Rem 700 rifle.

    Now onto my 338 Allen Xpress. Basically what this round is, is a form of the 338 Lapua Improved with some minor differences that improve feeding and extraction characteristics in repeating rifles without sacrificing any performance.

    As far as performance, you will see roughly 100 fps more velocity then the Edge will get with same pressures and barrel length and bullet weights. Performance numbers will basically match what you would see in a 338-378 Wby but with around 10 grains less powder. Basically it splits the difference between the Edge and 338-378 in capacity but because the Lapua case can be loaded to much higher chamber pressures then the 338-378, it will match the larger round in performance with good case life as well, that is not an option with a 338-378 with high pressure loads.

    Downsides of the increased performance, its not as easy to get into a Rem 700 receiver. It can certainly be fitted into one but in my opinion it has to be a chrome moly receiver and a center feed magazine to feed well in the Rem 700.

    Also, you have to fireform cases. I am setting up my fireforming fixtures as we speak and the first rounds that will be offered will be 338 AM and 338 AX. Customers can either order preformed cases through me or send me their cases to form at a charge.

    Forming your own cases would be very easy, just load up a 338 Lapua standard load and shoot and out comes a 338 Allen Xpress case, just more wear on your barrel however.

    This is where the Edge has a user friendly advantage over the 338 AX.

    The advantages the 338 AX has over the Edge are mainly in case quality and case life. The strength of the 338 Lapua parent case is extremely impressive. In fact I have yet in all my testing with my wildcats based on this case, loosened a primer pocket to the point that the case was not completely usible still and I have run some of these cases very hard for a long time.

    SO thats basically what you have in the comparision.

    Good luck with your decision, you could not really go wrong either way!!!

    About Shawns 338 AM, shoot it a couple times and I almost guarantee you will forget all about the decision about the 338 Edge or 338 AX!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  13. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Kirby,

    Thanks, that is great information!

    Now that you have spoiled me, can I ask about the Magnum?

    Can you compare the 3 rounds, Edge, AX, and AM? Both bullet weights and velocity, along with accuracy comparisons would be great!

    Maybe a picture of the 3 rounds together?

    Bill
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Bwaites,

    The 338 Allen Magnum is based on the 408 Chey Tac case, necked down, shoulder moved forward and case blown out to the Allen Magnum shoulder and body configuration.

    At this time, it is the largest capacity 338 wildcat based on the 408 CT parent case by around 6 to 7 grains.

    You are looking at using 144 to 148 grains of powder under a 300 gr SMK bullet for a velocity pushing 3350 to 3400 fps in 33" barrels with top end loads. Most load to 3300 fps however just to keep things really comfortable.

    Even at that its head and shoulders above the smaller capacity 338 magnums but obviously barrrel life will be somewhat shorter.

    Performance numbers in same length barrels, that being 33" barrels I would say you would get the following, all with the 300 gr SMK:

    338 Edge.............2900 fps
    338 Allen Xpress.....3000 fps
    338 Allen Magnum.....3350 fps

    Accuracy wise, in a quality rifle they are pretty much the same to be honest. All will make hitting at ranges out to 1000 yards pretty simple. The 338 AM just makes the wind a bit less noticable and time of flight ALOT less. Energy numbers are also much higher for the 338 AM then the smaller rounds obviously.

    Recoil is really pretty much the same between all of them. THe 338 AM is limited to around 16 lbs for min weight with all steel barrels whereas the smaller rounds can be chambered in much lighter rifles. Still a 16 to 17 lb rifle is not all that hard to pack around in many hunting situations with a good sling or rifle pack.

    I do not have a pic of all of them together yet but will work on that here soon.

    Really your talking about the top of the 338 magnum performane pile with the 338 Edge and 338 AX and then you take another huge leap up to the 338 AM performance level. Not really even remotely in the same class of performance.

    Kirby Allen(50)