Cold bore shot impact?

[MT257]

Right over the front action screw of top and under the scope if possible..If not put it anywhere you can see the movement.Tighten it down but not too tight and push and pull it hard.You should see NO movement.
Where is not as important as it is to see if it moves any.Any movement will magnify the movement and change the vibrational node.
You can do this buddy,not a biggie.
Also you can put tape on the action and the stock but cut it seperate so one don't move with the other and torque it down ans shoot and see if tape still aligns

So just to make sure I'm following. Id put a piece of tape in front of the action screw on the aluminum block in the stock?

 

[Old Rooster]

No, on top of the barrel or action so you can see it.Do not pull barreled action out of stock.All on top so it's visible.You don't even have to tighted the stock screws to see if movement is present.
I have tightened the action screws and and shot the rifle and the tape did not align anymore so it slipped rearward which told me it needed bedding.No amount of torque will keep a barreled action straight in the stock very long if the recoil lug has wobble room.
You can do this buddy.

 

[Carlos88]

The short answer is no. For the cold bore shot to be predictable it has to be shot from a cold clean bore. Once you establish where it falls you can hold for it. If it is only a couple of inches or less it will still be minute if deer out to about 200 yds.

Beg to differ with you but a hunting rifle's first shot should be in the same group as the follow-ups. That's the reason you hunt with a dirty barrel. Five or more shots after a thorough cleaning.

You'll never catch me hunting with a clean barrel. Never, ever.

 

[NCWshooter]

Some will misconstrue what I say but here goes anyway : As I have stated in other posts, (IN MY EXPERIENCE), stainless barrels tend to "crawl" more as they heat up. (This is why I asked) Coefficients of thermal expansion withstanding, I noticed years ago that MY stainless barrels tended to "crawl" more as they heated up. Do they shoot great cold? Yes. Do they shoot good hot? Yes. But on several of mine there has always been a "transitional period" during warmup. Just last week I witnessed this in one of my rifles with a spiral-fluted, heavy stainless barrel. Cold it shot great. Warm it shot good. I am NOT bashing stainless barrels. I love them. Got a few. Have owned a few more. They just seem to "crawl" more during warm up. IMO: If your stainless barreled hunting rifle is zeroed on the cold shot - you're golden. If your target rifle is stainless you may or may not have to acclimate on later shots. (Again, just my experiences) I TRY to never bash others, their advice or their favorite brand. (In over 55 years of gun ownership & target shooting, sooner or later, I've had a problem with every brand of rifle that I've EVER owned save one...& I've owned 2 of that brand) I usually just relate to my personal experiences here, not my personal favorites. Lets us know what you find out please.

Could you explain "crawl" to me to a better understanding of what you are saying?

 

[NCWshooter]

Beg to differ with you but a hunting rifle's first shot should be in the same group as the follow-ups. That's the reason you hunt with a dirty barrel. Five or more shots after a thorough cleaning.

You'll never catch me hunting with a clean barrel. Never, ever.

I agree, it should be still be within your accepted group that you decided to go hunting with and my experience tells me you are right about hunting with a clean barrel.

 

[Carlos88]

I agree, it should be still be within your accepted group that you decided to go hunting with and my experience tells me you are right about hunting with a clean barrel.

With a dirty barrel.

 

[NCWshooter]

With a dirty barrel.

Yes, my mistake, a dirty barrel.

 

[26Reload]

Hunting clean barrel vs dirty....
Just depends on gun....
I 'cleaned the heck out of my barrels'...after several rounds...about 35..but it was always fire til dirty and 'hoped they shot well'....
I got tired of the 35 or so rounds and things going whacky...
I did a CLR clean on my proof cf..to shiny bare metal....then it shot small holes from the first past 25 rounds.....
When is a serious cleaning needed...when things just don't work....
I've done 2 CLR cleanings...and it shoots really good from first shot....

I did find that you really need to clean everything thoroughly to get the CLR out..otherwise it lingers and discolors the brass...especially if moisture is in the area you hunt.....snow..rain..fog....

 

[Teri Anne]

I have a hunting rifle that I recently cleaned down to bare bore. I shot three fouler shots then did some load work. I have not cleaned it yet. Maybe 30 shots since cleaning. Went back to range to test two separate 4 shot groups out at different COAL. The first shot (cold bore fouled) hit roughly 2" low of center target. I then proceeded to wait 2 min to shoot and the 2nd shot was half in left and 1" high of center then next two shots were shot within 45 seconds. Shots 2,3,4 were a dime sized group. I went to shoot the other test loaded coal. Again the first shot was roughly two inches low of center the following 3 shots grouped slightly left and high of center. Is there any way to get that first shot to come back up into the other three shots? The barrel is free floated and the stock is hs precision. The first shot low seemed to happen after replacing factory walnut stock. Looking for any advice.

Hello, there are several possible issues here, but not quite enough information provided to come to any one specific conclusion as to what the problem could be. What range were you shooting at? Who made the action you are using? Who installed the barrel onto the action? What caliber is the rifle chambered for? Who reamed out the chamber for whatever cartridge you are using? What is the twist rate for the barrel? (When answering the above questions do not name a specific person. Simply say something like, I did, a local experienced gun builder, a local experienced gunsmith, a nationally know gunsmith shop.) However be specific on the action and barrel information. In regards to the new stock who bedded the new action into the stock. How was it bedded? What type of rail "0" MOA, "20" MOA or other. Who made the scope rings? Who made the scope? Who mounted the scope? and more importantly what type ammo are you using and is it factory, and if so which brand. If it is hand loaded what bullet are you loading into it. Seems that these are a lot of questions, and they are but all necessary to know before one can even begin to troubleshoot your issue.

Ammo can be a big issue. As an example I was asked to try out some copper bullets in 30-06 for a friend. I was using my Tikka T3X at 100 yards. This rifle will shoot 0.7 MOA or less with Nosler, Sig Sauer or Federal 165 grain factory ammo. My hand loads will not really shoot any better than that. I have hand loaded Barnes TSX 165 gr copper bullets that would group at 0.8 MOA or less. My friend supplied the copper ammo that he wanted to test. In this case it was Federal Premium 30-06 Trophy Copper. Keep in mind that this rifle was shooting sub MOA with just about any cannon fodder put through it. From a bench at 100 yards on a calm sunny day with at temperature of 38 degrees the first shot out of the barrel did not even hit a 24" target backer much less the target. The second shot was no better. A walk down the range confirmed no hits on paper. Keep in mind this rifle shoots 0.7 MOA and was not hitting anything. I taped 4 of the 24 inch target backers together and a target dead center giving me 48 inch x 48 inch target area at 100 yards. The first shot hit the lower left edge of the backer. The second shot hit the top middle of the backer again near the edge, the third shot clipped the bottom of the backer at 6 O'Clock. The three shot group was some 23 inches. Suspecting that maybe something went wrong with my scope or other issue with my rifle i then loaded Federal Premium 165 gr Trophy Bonded and fired a three shot 0.8 MOA group 1.5 inches high, which is where I had the rifle sighted in. Tried another 3 shot group with the trophy copper with the same results as the first 3 shot copper group. The conclusion drawn from this exercise is that for some reason my particular rifle did not like the Trophy Copper and simply sent them off into space going whichever way they wanted to while liking the Barnes TSX copper just fine. Now another conclusion that can be drawn is that it doesn't have to necessarily be anything wrong with the rifle to cause a scattered group, it just doesn't like the ammo. I have 5 hunting rifles .308, .270, 30-06 and 300 WM. All of them will group sub MOA shooting either 3 to 5 shots rapid fire at 100 yards. Each has it's own pet load, either factory or hand load to accomplish this. So before you get all concerned about your rifle, try some different ammo. And yes please answer the questions at the beginning of this missive. As it is said, "Inquiring minds want to know."

 

[Radman]

Could you explain "crawl" to me to a better understanding of what you are saying?

POI moves progressively with each shot/as barrel warms.

 

[WildRose]

The short answer is no. For the cold bore shot to be predictable it has to be shot from a cold clean bore. Once you establish where it falls you can hold for it. If it is only a couple of inches or less it will still be minute if deer out to about 200 yds.

That is incorrect or at least incorrect with most rifles.

 

[WildRose]

Here is one of my tests to see if a rifle could benefit from bedding.
Loosen the action screws so that only a few threads are holding it in place and hold the stock and try to move the barrled action rearward and to the front.
I put a piece of tape on barreled action and on stock and if they move when I pull and push on the barreled action then IT NEEDS BEDDING!
No amount of action torque will keep it from moving at some point.
Just what I learned years ago.

Torquing byond or below factory spec is almost always a really bad idea as it can cause the action to bind due to stresses induced by the uneven/improper torque.

 

[Old Rooster]

I have tightened the action screws and and shot the rifle and the tape did not align anymore so it slipped rearward which told me it needed bedding.No amount of torque will keep a barreled action straight in the stock very long if the recoil lug has wobble room.

Wild Rose did you miss the part where I said I have tightened the action screws and then shot it?
I am not stupid.

 

[WildRose]

Wild Rose did you miss the part where I said I have tightened the action screws and then shot it?
I am not stupid.

If I thought you were stupid I'd probably say so.

I'm adding on beyond your post since you didn't mention torqueing to spec.

If he has a problem at all it could simply be improperly torqued screws as they can induce stress due to flexing the action.