Chronograph recomendations

[Forester]

I would go with the CED....But....Go with the IR setup right away. I didn't. I have been having some issues with mine. One day I am at 3040 with an 11 fps ES and a SD of 3 or 4. Next time....same load....2960, and am still showing a low es and sd. Last time out....2840, with great es and sd. They sent me another processor and a pair of sensors. I went out today and set them both up and shot 2 sets of 25 shots. I used a .22, simply because of the expense and cost in $$$ and time shooting match loads. After the first 25 shots I simply switched the leads around so each processor used the other set of sensors. Results.....I got the same reading on both tests, with the exception that there is a 8 fps loss from the front sensors to the back on each test. Same es, same sd. I went through shot by shot and they were all the same, except for that 8-9 fps difference due to sensor location.This test tells me, along with what the head man at CED tells me....there is nothing wrong with my equipment. It is strictly a lighting issue. You eliminate all lighting issues with the IR setup. I have a friend who has done very well in 1000 yd competition who had the same problem...untill he switched!!!! Now, all is right with the world (for him, anyway) I had some other brands, and although they worked fairly well in most lighting conditions, the always gave me erratic readings, with "fliers" which would be 50, 60, ...100 fps off. Is it possible for the readings to be correct and that there are actual "fliers" in the string? NO!!!! Not a chance. That may sound a little arrogant to some but oh well. What can I say...I'm a perfectionist.

And like was posted earlier....it tells you everything you need to know, and is simple to run.

Just my .02 worth.

Going from 3040 to 2960 could, I think, be a function of temperature differences, primer lots, powder lots, bullet lots...or the combination of all 3. If all of those things were exactly the same, then light may well be the issue.

I bought the IR kit at the same time that I bought my CED...I have only used it twice. The first time was just to see that it worked, the second was just to prove the idea that you could Chrono in the dark (you can). Unless you know you are going to chrono in fairly dark conditions I would say save your $$ and try the chrono without the IR kit first. If you do buy the IR kit, be sure and buy the battery pack to power it as well...otherwise you need a place to plug it in near your shooting bench.

The only downside I have found is that if you use the IR kit in very bright daylight you can actually have so much light on the sensors that you cause errors.

One thing I would really like to do, is build a "coffin" for the chrono sensors to block out all daylight and use the IR sensors so as to take out light as a variable entirely.

 

[rem300ultra]

Chronographs

I have the CED Millennium M2. It works great.

 

[4xforfun]

Going from 3040 to 2960 could, I think, be a function of temperature differences, primer lots, powder lots, bullet lots...or the combination of all 3. If all of those things were exactly the same, then light may well be the issue.

You forgot about the 2840. I was using the same box of bullets, primers, and same pound of powder. The temp range was from 58 to 64. The only difference was the lighting conditions. I have talked to Charles Hardy, who, from what I can gather, is very high on the food chain at CED about this several times. He is the one who, without knowing me from adam, with no payment or credit card numbers, just a guy on the phone, sent me the second set of sensors and another processor to try. He has about eleventeen times more knowledge about this stuff than anyone I have ever talked to. He insists that the better, or more accurate, or more sensitive, the sensors are as far as processing accuracy, the more different lighting conditions affect overall readings. The es, av, sd....should be all the same, but the over all speed might be different. Just like my readings. Good numbers as far as es, av, ect. Just the AV changes. I Finlay got it into my thick skull....IT'S THE LIGHT...STUPID..

I just read the above and it is obvious that I can't explain it like Mr Hardy. But I am convinced that the IR setup will work very well, simply because when I do my load development (which is why I need it) I like to shoot later in the evening, when the wind is down and the mirage is minimal. Cloudy, calm days also work well also.

 

[Eaglet]

Forester,
I like the coffin idea... Not bad at all! Though I have never had any problems with mine; as long as I understand the effects of light and where
not to position it I may live without a coffin.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Another +1 for CED.

 

[stxhunter]

i forgot my ced sitting on a picnic table at the ranch for a week. it got rained on hard two days about 3 inchs of rain and the temps where up to 100degrees. i changed the battiers and it worked fine going to use it tommorrow as a matter of fact

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

I have a Shooting Chrony and it is off by about 100 fps in all conditions. I guess you get what you pay for.

 

[esshup]

I talked to Ken Oehler at the NRA convention this afternoon for a while, and he never mentioned about the chronographs not being sold anymore, in fact, he made the comment that he hoped that he didn't talk himself out of a sale.

I have used Oehler and I really like the 3rd screen. Now if you want to spend some $$, the Model 43 will give you pressure readings, and the bc of the bullet when you use the acoustic targets, among other readings. He said that the acoustic targets work as long as the bullet is sonic. They have shot with 4,000 feet of cable to prove the bc of different bullets.

 

[Forester]

Forester,
I like the coffin idea... Not bad at all! Though I have never had any problems with mine; as long as I understand the effects of light and where
not to position it I may live without a coffin.

I wish I could claim it, but thats how it is done at larger USPSA pistol matches to keep the light conditions the same all day long when shooters get to the Chrono stage. Incidentally, the CED Chrono is used at most of them.

 

[jwp475]

I talked to Ken Oehler at the NRA convention this afternoon for a while, and he never mentioned about the chronographs not being sold anymore, in fact, he made the comment that he hoped that he didn't talk himself out of a sale.

I have used Oehler and I really like the 3rd screen. Now if you want to spend some $$, the Model 43 will give you pressure readings, and the bc of the bullet when you use the acoustic targets, among other readings. He said that the acoustic targets work as long as the bullet is sonic. They have shot with 4,000 feet of cable to prove the bc of different bullets.

The 33s and 35s have not been made for some time now, only the 43 is still in production

 

[goodgrouper]

I own a 35 Oehler, a Shooter Chrony alpha, and have shot through a CED M2, the Oehler 43, a Pact Pro, and several other old makes no longer made. Of them all, the Oehler 43 is far and away the most comprehensive and sophisticated machine. The CEDM2 is a fine machine and has many great features and is definitely the best machine out there right now since the Oehler 35 is on hiatus. The Oehler 35 is not quite as refined and fancy as the CED, but it has two features that the CED can't make up for. It has three screens and can be placed 2', 4', or 8' apart. This makes the chrono more accurate and three screens combined gives a proof or "second" comparison of the shot.

Last week, I shot my 6ppc through my Oehler 35 with the CEDM2 right behind it. The readings were always within 10 fps on every shot. I believe I remember the owner of CED telling me that the photolenses in the CED are the exact same as those used by OEhler.

The downsides of the CED I saw that day were that it will not give you a standard deviation reading on any group unless it is a five shot group. This is an inconvenience for working on magnums in my opinion since I only use 3 shot groups for load development. But on three shot groups, you can simply divide the extreme spread by two and that will be your deviation. So it's not a big deal just something I would like to see fixed in the new programming.

The upsides of the CED are the nice readout, the LCD display, the functions and programs, the ability to hook up to a computer, easy disassembly, and they look plain cool! For sure, the best chrono on the market now.

The shooter chrony's are entry level chrono's and I hate mine. I only use it for checking ballistic coefficients at 100 yards. It won't work unless the bullet passes exactly by the right place above the lens, and it hates sunny days. I have even modified the diffusers to provide more shade but it helped only marginally. IMHO, save up another Franklin and get the CED. You'll be glad you did.

 

[BHP9]

I wish I could claim it, but thats how it is done at larger USPSA pistol matches to keep the light conditions the same all day long when shooters get to the Chrono stage. Incidentally, the CED Chrono is used at most of them.

Do you have pics or a link?

I remember seeing this but at the time I didn't have a chrono.

I have had issues with the sun, so I want to do something about it.

 

[vonb]

Goodgrouper,
Are you sure about this? I have not noticed this as being the case on my CED M2. Also, for those recommending the IR kit for the fix it all, it will not work well on bright sunny days. I had more errors with it on sunny days than I care to admit. However, I still think the CED is the best deal going that available today....Unless you want to spring for a PVM-21.

The downsides of the CED I saw that day were that it will not give you a standard deviation reading on any group unless it is a five shot group. This is an inconvenience for working on magnums in my opinion since I only use 3 shot groups for load development. But on three shot groups, you can simply divide the extreme spread by two and that will be your deviation. So it's not a big deal just something I would like to see fixed in the new programming.

 

[Forester]

Do you have pics or a link?

I remember seeing this but at the time I didn't have a chrono.

I have had issues with the sun, so I want to do something about it.

This is the best pic I could find...it should give you an idea what to do. The actual plans would be dependent on the dimensions of your Chrono. The one in the pic is of 2 CEDs back to back.

For USPSA they often run 2 chronos, shoot 3 shots and give the shooter the higher average multiply by bullet weight to get power factor.

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