case annealing

[D Scott]

Had a question abiout annealing the brass necks ,? is it needed and if so how often and how best to do it ?

My purpose is to develop a long range load for 1000 yds, with a low ES and good accuracy.
which leads me to my next question I have a 260 remm shooting 140 Nosler hpbt, using h-4831 sc, Im getting 2750 fps and ES of around 14-15 and about 1/2 MOA grouping or better at 100. will this work ok out to 1000 yrds?

however I tried some hornaday A max same weight, struggled to keep the groups under an inch but got 6 fps ES
What would be the next BEST step to try to improve the accuracy of this load,
thanks in advance Scott

 

[D Scott]

extreme spread

My purpose is to develop a long range load for 1000 yds, with a low ES and good accuracy.
which leads me to my next question I have a 260 remm shooting 140 Nosler hpbt, using h-4831 sc, Im getting 2750 fps and ES of around 14-15 and about 1/2 MOA grouping or better at 100. will this work ok out to 1000 yrds? without too much vertical displacement?
I have seated all the rounds at 20 thou off the lands measuring with a comparator.

however I tried some hornaday A max same weight, struggled to keep the groups under an inch but got 6 fps for an ES
What would be the next BEST step to try to improve the accuracy of this load,

1 Change powders?
2 Change primers ?
3 seating depth ? is closer generally better or is increasing the jump sometimes helpful ?
which change would be the next logical step is there some sort of order to all of this craziness
thanks in advance Scott

 

[RDM416]

For your annealing question; I anneal my cases after the first firing. Even if it is not a case that is being fireformed, it still is..... Even on standard calibers the shoulder and neck are being slightly "formed" the first time the brass is fired. After that I anneal about every 5 loadings.

An ES of 14 should be fine for 1000 yard shooting. I am shooting larger calibers than you but for me an ES of 14 or so is fine. Occasionally I may shoot a 10 or 20 round string with an ES of 6 or 7 but it is rare. I am shooting out to 1000 and have not seen any noticeable vertical stringing even with ES of 20 or so. That is not to say I am not getting some, but at that range there are many other factors involved and I have never had a problem I can say was from my ES being too high. I normally chrono every shot and just don't see a pattern that the slower rounds impact lower on my gong. Obviously in a perfect test they would, but nothing shooting at 1000 is a perfect test.

 

[D Scott]

thanks for the feedback, appreciate it, I feel silly asking but I have not researched how to actually do it, any tips? thanks Scott

also any tips on prepping the inside of the case necks? I have been using a metal bore brush, but have tried a nylon one too, and have been using the powdered mica neck lube before FL sizing, should you dry lube again before seating the bullet? or do any other prep thanks

 

[kc0pph]

I use a Torch with MAPP Gas. Set all of the brass in a pan with water up to the point i aneal. I usually go just below the neck. I make them glow cherry red then push them over in the water using the torch. I find that propane does not get them hot enough as a lot of heat is transfered to the water. I have found i use a lot less gas if i put lead weights inside the case and leave the spent primers in it. This makes it go much faster as there is no water inside of the case. My cases are not too awful stable if there is no weight and i just set them in the water.

 

[eddybo]

I just ordered Ken Lights annealer with a bunch of disks. One of the reasons I decided to start annealing was to help stop split necks when fire forming cases that require the shoulder to be blown forward. Is annealing going to help this? Specifically I am using Jamison 375 Chey tac brass to an improved version. I was getting a few split necks so decided to try this.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I use a Torch with MAPP Gas. Set all of the brass in a pan with water up to the point i aneal. I usually go just below the neck. I make them glow cherry red then push them over in the water using the torch. I find that propane does not get them hot enough as a lot of heat is transfered to the water. I have found i use a lot less gas if i put lead weights inside the case and leave the spent primers in it. This makes it go much faster as there is no water inside of the case. My cases are not too awful stable if there is no weight and i just set them in the water.

If you are getting the brass to a point that it glows 'cherry red', you are burning the brass. Annealing temps for brass are around 650 degrees F, which does not glow any color red, even in a dark room!

The best way to do this without temp crayons is to watch the color of the brass as it heats up. It should go blue/green into red/brown just below the shoulder, like the rings of a rainbow. The neck itself should be a golden brown color, anything darker than this and the brass has burned. The 'rings' should flow below the shoulder for no more than 1/8"-1/4".
You do not need to drop them into water, it does nothing to the annealing process, but for peace of mind it is OK to do so. So too standing them in water, but you want it to be about 3/4 the way up the body, otherwise it will soak up too much of the heat and give an ineffective anneal.

If using the stand in water method, which I used to, I use a 'lazy susan', which is a turntable, so that I can rotate the cases and heat them evenly.

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[kc0pph]

Well ive never had a problem with this process. Started out with .357, 38, 44 and 45 lc pistol cases. When one split i anealed the whole batch. Always got em to glow cherry red and never had a problem. Have yet to replace a batch of my .357, which i load pretty hot at 7.5gn of 231 with 158gn Cast CG bullets. When i started shooting rifle i just applied the same process only used water. A local guy cautioned me to use water so that i did not soften the heads. It uses a lot more gas but i always thought the gas was cheaper than buying new brass (a bottle lasts me 200-250 cases in water and costs me 7 bucks).

I have heard of the crayon method and if they are not too expensive at the local welding shop ill give them a try. Wonder how an infared thermomiter would work? Any ideas on that.

As far as above, in several of my posts i have identified myself as a tinker with no professional training. If someone disagrees with my methods, id use their method. They probably have much more expertiese than me in the area.