Bumping shoulder neck sizing neck turning

[Bigeclipse]

All I have to say is WOW...the more I read about reloading the more questions I have. I have decided that I want to start neck sizing my brass for my 7mm rem mag so I bought a lee neck sizing die set. I understand why some people neck size, but the question is how do I bump the shoulders back (when the time comes) with out full length resizing? Do I need to buy yet another die for bumping the shoulders back? I have the lock and load gauge you use to measure shoulder length already.
My final question is about neck turning. I read somewhere that by the time I need to bump the shoulder back I will also have to "turn" the necks. I think I understand the principle...you want to make sure the neck is an even thickness all the way around. How important is this for my needs of mainting a .5 MOA load? How does one go about even doing this process of neck turning? Reloading is almost starting to become overwhelming and less fun haha.

 

[BountyHunter]

You are eventually going to have to FL size a 7mm Mag unless you reload to 7mm Mauser velocities.

However, you can buy a Forester bump die which does not size the body if you want to try it.

IMO you would be much better off buying a Redding body bump die ($28) and sending it with some fired cases to Jim Carstenson (JLC Precision) and having him make you a custom honed FL neck bushing die ($80) and be done with it. It fits your chamber perfectly, minimal sizing but avoids the click you get when you shoot full power loads without resizing or you are way overpressure. Brass is not overworked and lasts a long time when you use the correct sized FL die set up correctly.

One of the big reasons the NS only crowd keeps hollering is the "trimming" due to the expander balls pulling the necks. Jims die does not use an expander ball.

As for neck turning being needed, couple points.

1. In most factory chambers waste of time and money unless your brass is way off dimension on one side or wide variances. Simply buy a neck micrometer to measure and see if even needed.

Plus now that puts you into using neck bushing dies IF you have not been in order to maintain bullet tension. Not saying that is bad, just another cost and absolutely not be required if shooting .5 MOA

2. Buy quality brass: RWS, Lapua are my first two choices.

3. Get the Sinclair international shooting supplies catalog and look at their websites, they have several videos on tons of reloading subjects. Get Youtube also.

4. If your gun is shooting .5 MOA it will not change due to you "not neck turning". DO NOT MESS WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!!

 

[dkhunt14]

You are spot on Bountyhunter. Matt

 

[Bigeclipse]

You are eventually going to have to FL size a 7mm Mag unless you reload to 7mm Mauser velocities.

However, you can buy a Forester bump die which does not size the body if you want to try it.

IMO you would be much better off buying a Redding body bump die ($28) and sending it with some fired cases to Jim Carstenson (JLC Precision) and having him make you a custom honed FL neck bushing die ($80) and be done with it. It fits your chamber perfectly, minimal sizing but avoids the click you get when you shoot full power loads without resizing or you are way overpressure. Brass is not overworked and lasts a long time when you use the correct sized FL die set up correctly.

One of the big reasons the NS only crowd keeps hollering is the "trimming" due to the expander balls pulling the necks. Jims die does not use an expander ball.

As for neck turning being needed, couple points.

1. In most factory chambers waste of time and money unless your brass is way off dimension on one side or wide variances. Simply buy a neck micrometer to measure and see if even needed.

Plus now that puts you into using neck bushing dies IF you have not been in order to maintain bullet tension. Not saying that is bad, just another cost and absolutely not be required if shooting .5 MOA

2. Buy quality brass: RWS, Lapua are my first two choices.

3. Get the Sinclair international shooting supplies catalog and look at their websites, they have several videos on tons of reloading subjects. Get Youtube also.

4. If your gun is shooting .5 MOA it will not change due to you "not neck turning". DO NOT MESS WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!!

Ok so here is the deal...it is actually shooting .5 MOA or about that with my current factory remington Core lokts. This is exactly what I have done so far and maybe I am way off what I should be doing. I have put a criterion 7mm rem mag 9 twist on a savage 110 magnum action. This was placed in a B&C stock that is NOT currently bedded (minus aluminum bedding block) but is free floated. I will most likely have it bedded but the smith is busy until January. I was anxious to shoot the gun so I decided to buy some ammo to break-in the new barrel and see what happens. I broke in according to criterion/kriegers method. So far I have shot 40 rounds of the 60 core lokts I bought and it has been consistently shooting .5-.75 MOA at 100 yards. I tested at 300 yards yesterday. Only two 5 shot groups though. Both groups had 4 shots clustered in a nice 1.5 inch group with a "flier" 3 inches away. Both fliers were perfect in vertical with the other shots but horizontally stringing away from the others. These fliers could be me and not enough trigger time or maybe my rifle not being bedded? Anyways, I have some 160 accubonds on the way that I was going to work up some loads using the brass left over from the core lokts. Brass has been difficult to find and the brass I did find (lapua) seemed crazy expensive. I was planning on neck sizing the remington brass and bumping when needed with my FL RCBS dies to improve brass life to help prevent case head separation. I was not exactly doing neck only for accuracy reasons. I do not have lots of money and maybe I have spent the money on the wrong dies. I am a basic hunter and where I hunt most shots would be under 200 yards. We do have a 400 yard field (farthest shot to date on a deer is 275yards) and now have gained access to a 600 yard field to hunt. The goal with this rifle will ultimately be to stretch its legs to 700 yards on game, BUT of course that will only be when I feel I am capable to take those shots. Realistically I see myself hunting next year out to 400 and maybe the year after that to 600.

 

[BountyHunter]

The gun has proven great potential if you are shooting that good at 300.

NS will not save brass on a magnum shot at magnum velocities though. Total BS, Even the greatest NS disciple around finally had to admit his famed 6.5 WSSM has to be FL sized either with a FL die or body die and then use NS die when he shoots it to its potential.

Either way, you end up sizing the body. Load down and another story but then that is another cartridge in reality.

LR hunters rarely load down from a cartridges potential just to say "I NS"!

Try the current RCBS dies and set them just for a very small shoulder bump. That may or may not be all the way down on the ram also.

I would get a straight line decapper with no expander ball from RCBS if you do that. Pretty inexpensive and will work well.

Save yourself some grief and go the honed JLC die fi that does not work or you can put the money to it. You will not regret it.

 

[el matador]

There are about a million things you can do to your gun and ammo to improve accuracy. Some of them end up helping a lot, some don't seem to make any difference. My advice would be to start off simple and see how it shoots. Get some good quality brass to begin with and you probably won't need to neck turn. Norma and Lapua brass is usually quite uniform. When reloading just use a FL resizing die and set it up so it barely bumps the shoulder back .001-.002". There are plenty of write-ups on how to do this. A good benchrest seating die is worthwhile as it keeps your ammo more concentric and allows you to easily adjust seating depth in precise increments. If you're not satisfied with your accuracy after working up your loads then you can consider neck turning, neck sizing, weighing brass, measuring concentricity, etc.

 

[woods]

Lee Collet

Redding Body Die when you need to push the shoulder back

Outside neck turn NEW brass only and then you won't have to again

 

[Bigeclipse]

The gun has proven great potential if you are shooting that good at 300.

NS will not save brass on a magnum shot at magnum velocities though. Total BS, Even the greatest NS disciple around finally had to admit his famed 6.5 WSSM has to be FL sized either with a FL die or body die and then use NS die when he shoots it to its potential.

Either way, you end up sizing the body. Load down and another story but then that is another cartridge in reality.

LR hunters rarely load down from a cartridges potential just to say "I NS"!

Try the current RCBS dies and set them just for a very small shoulder bump. That may or may not be all the way down on the ram also.

I would get a straight line decapper with no expander ball from RCBS if you do that. Pretty inexpensive and will work well.

Save yourself some grief and go the honed JLC die fi that does not work or you can put the money to it. You will not regret it.

What does the decapper with no expander ball do

 

[desertbull]

Redding has a full length bushing die that will bump the shoulder and size the neck with a bushing, letting you control neck tension very precisely. The same die is converted to a body die by leaving out the bushing. It has an expander but it can be removed and still punch out the primer.

you could also get a Forster and have it honed by factory to get precise neck tension. I think most die MFG offer this but I know Forster does for sure.

If you are going to turn the necks, you should probably just take off as little as possible to true them up.

Personally, I would spend the money on bullets, primers and powder until you get a solid load developed using basic reloading steps before diving into the advanced stuff that might not make a difference in your groups until you start getting to 1,000 or more.

You can make VERY solid reloads with a basic die set.

 

[BountyHunter]

What does the decapper with no expander ball do

Does not "pull" the neck which most claim leads to runout etc.

IF you get a dent, simply keep on hand the appropriate caliber expanding mandrel as a separate item from K&M or Sinclair depending on which neck turning set you want to go with. Which BTW is a mandatory tool if you neck turn.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Does not "pull" the neck which most claim leads to runout etc.

IF you get a dent, simply keep on hand the appropriate caliber expanding mandrel as a separate item from K&M or Sinclair depending on which neck turning set you want to go with. Which BTW is a mandatory tool if you neck turn.

Redding has a full length bushing die that will bump the shoulder and size the neck with a bushing, letting you control neck tension very precisely. The same die is converted to a body die by leaving out the bushing. It has an expander but it can be removed and still punch out the primer.

you could also get a Forster and have it honed by factory to get precise neck tension. I think most die MFG offer this but I know Forster does for sure.

If you are going to turn the necks, you should probably just take off as little as possible to true them up.

Personally, I would spend the money on bullets, primers and powder until you get a solid load developed using basic reloading steps before diving into the advanced stuff that might not make a difference in your groups until you start getting to 1,000 or more.

You can make VERY solid reloads with a basic die set.

Thanks to both you. I think I will do some load development with my regular RCBS dies. If I don't get the results I desire I will dive in like you guys syggest. Thanks for all your input!