Building your own laminated stock
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A lot of bow builders use smooth-on epoxy.
www.3riversarchery.com
Smooth-On EA-40 Bow Glue
Check out the deal on Smooth-On EA-40 Bow Glue at 3Rivers Archery Supply
www.3riversarchery.com
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
[HIJACK] Some of the biggest pieces of purple heart that I've ever seen: [/HIJACK]
longrangebob
Well-Known Member
Oh Yes, & if you plan how the final stock will look After contouring - you can place different woods in differing places in the Laminate - such that when you cut, shave, file & sand those other colours will appear and disappear depending on the contouring (always use too Much "Glue" so you have ooze & no Voids ! )
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I have had one stock with a center laminate of carbon fiber and it looked great. I also like to use something very strong for the backbone like mesquite, and then at least two laminate's added to each side. When you cut the laminates be sure to split one board in half thickness and the reverse the slabs so the grain is facing in on each piece for more strength. You can do this on each added laminate. (This is a common practice when making knife scales).
J E CUSTOM
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264MHC
Well-Known Member
Look online at a marine supply store, west marine or Jamestown distributors. Buy a gallon kit of West System epoxy, 105 Resin and 206 Hardener for normal indoor working environments - 70* ambient temps. Get 205 hardener if it's gonna be sub 50* and 209 if it's 85* plus (doubtful). I would also buy the pumps for the gallon kit. They make it so much easier to mix with one pump of each providing a perfect 5:1 mix ratio without measuring. Just watch out for air on the first couple pumps. For example, for the amount needed to laminate one strip it might take 5 pumps of resin followed by 5 pumps of hardener followed by a thorough mixing. Also buy a small container of 404 Filler to mix in to desired thickness for bedding the barreled action later. You can roll epoxy on but you need epoxy resistant rollers. Cheap chip brushes work fine for laminating since it's not an area you will ever see again, and they're disposable. You can't really clean epoxy out of a brush. Good even clamping and starting on a perfectly straight table will prevent warping and you should have no problem laminating all the strips together at once. Just make them oversized and cut the shape out later and you won't have to worry about keeping it lined up too closely.
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That is very neat! Did you bed that barrel the full length? With how stiff that stock sounds, it seems you would be able to shoot just about any load out of it very accurately.
John Klingenberg
Well-Known Member
I've done a couple. I'm not much of a wood worker but for the various things I've done I've found it easier to start with a square blank. Build a good fitting "box" to keep them from drifting around and I used a metal frame with two hydraulic Jack's over 3 inch steel tube to press together. I initially used Acura glass in the red box but switched to the marine epoxy from West. You can square it up and inlet after the block is cured. It is a fun project but very time consuming.
Thank you for all the great advice!
This project is in the beginning/planning stages. I'm exploring stock design(s) and am looking for a fun/challenging winter project. I have a good selection of thick walnut blanks and the tools/equipment needed. I still have a little more homework and planning to do before starting.
Here's a couple of additional questions:
1) how thick of strips would you go with? I am considering as thin as 3/32" and as thick as 1/4"
2) do multiple thin strips provide significant strength and stability over thicker strips?
Thanks again for your input.
This project is in the beginning/planning stages. I'm exploring stock design(s) and am looking for a fun/challenging winter project. I have a good selection of thick walnut blanks and the tools/equipment needed. I still have a little more homework and planning to do before starting.
Here's a couple of additional questions:
1) how thick of strips would you go with? I am considering as thin as 3/32" and as thick as 1/4"
2) do multiple thin strips provide significant strength and stability over thicker strips?
Thanks again for your input.
John Klingenberg
Well-Known Member
I think the thinner strips would look better. At 1/4" you're looking at 8 layers if you do a 2" forend. It would make the flares of grain in the curves much bigger. At 3/32 it would look closer to wood grain than plywood
Nothing but aesthetics IMO as to thickness of the laminate layers.
I find "strength" of the blank a mostly irrelevant consideration for this process.
WIth solid hardwood blanks, direction of the grain flowing with the wrist is critical. In a laminated layup (think-plywood) this is N/A. Other than the wrist being able to transfer recoil forces to the butt of the stock, and a forend stiff enough to not deflect I don't see the need for more. CF looks cool as an exposed layer, as well as critical for building ultralights, but throwing a layer or two into an otherwise solid wood laminated stock doesn't make sense to me, either.
I guess I'm missing something here. Other than "because I can", I don't see a rationale behind taking a perfectly good hardwood blank, sawing it into thin layers and then laminating them back together. Unless you tint the epoxy for effect, you're going to end up with a stock that looks essentially the same as the blank.
Epoxy-impregnated laminates are more stable with temp and humidity, but with a proper pillar bedding job, this consideration is also moot.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I guess I'm missing something here. Other than "because I can", I don't see a rationale behind taking a perfectly good hardwood blank, sawing it into thin layers and then laminating them back together. Unless you tint the epoxy for effect, you're going to end up with a stock that looks essentially the same as the blank.
Epoxy-impregnated laminates are more stable with temp and humidity, but with a proper pillar bedding job, this consideration is also moot.
[/QUOTE]
I will try to explain and hopefully it will clear up the differences.
The idea of laminating wood +is to have the grain running in different directions for added strength. To get the most strength, you have to change grain direction of each laminate. the more Layers/laminates the better the effect. Also the more layers/laminates the more resin impregnated each layer will have.
From an aesthetics/looks point, the better planned the lay of the grain, the better it will look. from a strength point, if each laminate has an opposing and equal layer, one side of the stock will not be stronger than the other and all stresses would be equal minimizing warpage with temp and moisture changes.
A stock blank has the grain running in the same direction and is therefore subject to warpage. If you take that same 2" blank and saw it into 1/16 thick sheets and then glue it back together with proper planning and placement of each laminate it will be stronger and resist warpage better. It becomes a structural member when it is done properly.
If you want looks, pick a fine piece of wood with the grain running properly. if you want a strong stock the same can be had by laminating the same piece of wood with careful placement of the outer layers.
Some of the most beautiful and functional stocks I have seen are those with several different types of wood laminated together with the outer layer of fine figured presentation grade wood
for the looks.
All of this is the reason that a beautiful laminate will require much more work and planning than a solid wood stock.
J E CUSTOM
Epoxy-impregnated laminates are more stable with temp and humidity, but with a proper pillar bedding job, this consideration is also moot.
[/QUOTE]
I will try to explain and hopefully it will clear up the differences.
The idea of laminating wood +is to have the grain running in different directions for added strength. To get the most strength, you have to change grain direction of each laminate. the more Layers/laminates the better the effect. Also the more layers/laminates the more resin impregnated each layer will have.
From an aesthetics/looks point, the better planned the lay of the grain, the better it will look. from a strength point, if each laminate has an opposing and equal layer, one side of the stock will not be stronger than the other and all stresses would be equal minimizing warpage with temp and moisture changes.
A stock blank has the grain running in the same direction and is therefore subject to warpage. If you take that same 2" blank and saw it into 1/16 thick sheets and then glue it back together with proper planning and placement of each laminate it will be stronger and resist warpage better. It becomes a structural member when it is done properly.
If you want looks, pick a fine piece of wood with the grain running properly. if you want a strong stock the same can be had by laminating the same piece of wood with careful placement of the outer layers.
Some of the most beautiful and functional stocks I have seen are those with several different types of wood laminated together with the outer layer of fine figured presentation grade wood
for the looks.
All of this is the reason that a beautiful laminate will require much more work and planning than a solid wood stock.
J E CUSTOM
I'll post up some more details later but would absolutely use "Titebond III" which is the Titebond Ultimate referenced by @corsair4360 earlier. http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/e8d40b45-0ab3-49f7-8a9c-b53970f736af Home Depot has it here but I buy gallons from the supplier.
For the wood to wood bonds it will absolutely be the best choice. You need good even clamping pressure. I use cauls with my glueups for more even pressure. You need a good supply of bar, pipe or similar clamps. Make sure the wood is stable and not too smooth on the surface. A glue line rip blade leaves a texture that is just about right for the glue to bite. Titebond III will give a stronger than wood bond when layed up correctly and the color is a good match to the walnut for any tiny seams. It also sands decent for finishing.
@J E Custom is spot on in his description as to "why" a laminate is better. I prefer the look of a beautifully figured perfect grain stock but the laminates do have some advantages.
Epoxy is best for any inserts, bedding, bonds to dissimilar materials or to build up.
For the wood to wood bonds it will absolutely be the best choice. You need good even clamping pressure. I use cauls with my glueups for more even pressure. You need a good supply of bar, pipe or similar clamps. Make sure the wood is stable and not too smooth on the surface. A glue line rip blade leaves a texture that is just about right for the glue to bite. Titebond III will give a stronger than wood bond when layed up correctly and the color is a good match to the walnut for any tiny seams. It also sands decent for finishing.
@J E Custom is spot on in his description as to "why" a laminate is better. I prefer the look of a beautifully figured perfect grain stock but the laminates do have some advantages.
Epoxy is best for any inserts, bedding, bonds to dissimilar materials or to build up.
