Broadheads- Mech. VS Fixed

[lboom]

I shot a steel force 210 titanium to just under the skin on the far side of a cape buffalo. No matter what you shoot SHOT PLACMENT IS PARAMOUNT. Still like the expandables and have had great luck with them as I can shoot them straighter at long ranges and in the wind .my 2 cents

 

[Forester]

I shoot a pretty fast bow and practice year round to stay sharp. In the past few years I have used Rage and Grim Reaper mechanicals and been very pleased with the performance of both.

Rage: Good performance on game, they can be a pain going in and out of a quiver though. I switched away from them because they just were not very tough. I expect to need to replace blades after shooting a deer but the ferrule should hold up to multiple uses. Every Rage I shot at a deer killed the deer and then died itself when it hit the ground or tree behind it.


Grim Reaper: I shot the Whitetail specials this past year because I might as well use all that KE I have on hand and was very pleased. Clean them up check for straightness and replace the blades and go back to the woods. These things kill better than the Rages too IMO.

 

[Forester]

O K, I know I am about to step into a BIG pile of "stuf" but, my feelings on this matter are that "mechanical broadheads are for people who do not know how to tune a bow". Why would you want to put three opportunities for failure on the front of every arrow you shoot?
My practice arrows consist of nine arrows, three each of Rocky Mountain Premier, Thunderhead, and Steelforce all 100gr. I shoot them mixed together out to 70yds, if the group stars to open up I know I have to tweak the rest a little.
I use the stiffest arrow I can find, right now 3-71 ACC, with a 70lb Bowtech, paper tune to 1/4" knock high tear, then go to 40yds, shoot one broadhead, then one field point, shoot four of each. Usually there will be two groups with the broadheads about 2 to three inches below the field points. Now start raising the rest in very small increments, 1/32 to 1/16" until the groups come together.
Now all of this assumes you practice enough and your form is good enough to shoot that MEGA SPEED BOW you just bought.
Dave

So choosing a compound bow with all the attendant wheels and sights and stabs. and rests is ok, but a mechanical broadhead is for someone looking for a shortcut? Give me a break.

I keep my bow tuned right and practice year round, and I like a mechanical broadhead because it is one more advantage to me as I see it.

 

[CallMaker]

Fixed blade cut on contact have worked well for me for over 40 years, no need to fix what is not broken.

 

[SpencerSS]

After 15yrs of bowhunting and 9yrs as a Bowtech in a hunting store, I've developed some opinions of the products out there. I won't go into depth on all the aspects of this discussion, but in general, the vast majority of all broadheads on the market are marginal at best. That goes for both groups, though there are alot more 'good' fixed blade BHs out there than mech.

Breakage and bending are a big killer of penetration and overall effectiveness, and most BHs, especially mech., have this problem.

BHs that don't break and fly good are leaps and bounds above the rest. Go from there.

 

[bigbrother]

SpencerSS, I agree and somewhat disagree but to your point, yes all good broadheads today are good. Better than they were years ago, whether they be fixed blade or mechanical. I wouldn't necessarily call them marginal however. As in all things manufactured, perfection is not obtainable 100% of the time so no matter the brand, the weight, the design you as a consumer may find a bad batch, or bad head in a batch. It's not different than all of the long range shooters on this site sorting brass, measuring bullets, etc....

The key to a successful broadhead is having one that is straight, squared to your arrow, and is sharp. Today's bows all generate sufficient energy at reasonable hunting weights to drive a hunting weight arrow/head combination through game when shot properly no matter the type of broadhead. (notice a lot of caveats in that statement) The only way to determine whether the head is a good one, is you have to put in on the arrow and shoot it. This again is no different than fine tuning hand loads, or switching bullets to match a barrel. You may have one head in a pack that doesn't shoot with the other ones, so you don't use it. The only way to figure that out is to shoot them all. Replace the blades or sharpen the blades or switch out the practice blades when that arrow and head combination hits where it's supposed to.

I shoot Muzzy heads, I like them, have shot others both fixed and mechanicals and come back to the tried and true because they work for me. I find about 1 head out of dozen I buy that is not straight and you can't square it to the arrow...the rate was higher for the others I shot hence why I keep coming back to Muzzy. But again, they key isn't the brand or type but the knowledge of each head I have on my arrows flies to the same point out to 70 yards.

Good Shooting to all!

 

[SpencerSS]

By marginal, I was refering to mechanical advantage and durability. My coworkers and I have begun feild testing modern BHs. We are a few years from releasing results, but I can tell you that Modern designs are lacking in both of the aformentioned catagories.

The BHs are mostly inefficient and brittle (and if they break, they don't work to good).

The reason they work is modern bows are very efficient, most bowhunters are persuing whitetail deer (soft target), and have low expectations (They feel that if certain shots are made, its a bad shot, and there's nothing they could have done, or no arrow/broadhead that would have worked). With proper equipment, there is no bone in a whitetails body that should stop an arrow; so bad hits are mitigated (can't help gut shots, leg hits, or ones that miss vital organs and blood vessels).

National stats have it at more than 50% of all deer hit, are lost. That could be helped alot by changing arrow components.


This is what can be done, with the right stuff. Obviously, you don't have to go this heavy and what not for smaller animals, but the concepts are still valid.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iy6uPyQU0U]YouTube - ‪elephant penetration2‬‏[/ame]

Again, I refer to Dr. Ashby:
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/PR/Ashby_Ultimate_Hunting_Arrows.pdf

 

[bigbrother]

I agree with a lot of your statements but this clearly points out two differing thought processes that we typically see no matter the type of hunting. And btw, am not intending to ruffle anyone's feathers here. But again there are two theories:

Use a tougher broadhead so you can shoot the animal no matter the angle (shoot the biggest gun you can) or wait for a good angle and apply precise shot placement. (the people shooting light caliber guns)

I wholeheartedly agree that a more robust head will help the average hunter because that's where the statistics are coming from but broadhead design will never make up for poor shooting ability, lack of practice, and lack of patience. (It doesn't matter how big of a gun you gut shoot an elk with....it's still gut shot.)

 

[jflester]

After 50 years of bowing, it comes down to what dirtball eluded too. Tune the bow and it will shoot any broadhead effective and efficiently.

I've shot both and prefer the fixed (Muzzy MX-3). Does the job with no complaints on my end.

Carbon shafts and Muzzies.
I've shot just about everything out there and their all pretty good bows. Currently I shoot PSE Firestorm/55#. Does the job on everything. Razor sharp heads------always!

Practice KISS and you'll avoid most problems related to the compexities of bowing.

 

[squirrelduster]

I agree with a lot of your statements but this clearly points out two differing thought processes that we typically see no matter the type of hunting. And btw, am not intending to ruffle anyone's feathers here. But again there are two theories:

Use a tougher broadhead so you can shoot the animal no matter the angle (shoot the biggest gun you can) or wait for a good angle and apply precise shot placement. (the people shooting light caliber guns)

I wholeheartedly agree that a more robust head will help the average hunter because that's where the statistics are coming from but broadhead design will never make up for poor shooting ability, lack of practice, and lack of patience. (It doesn't matter how big of a gun you gut shoot an elk with....it's still gut shot.)

Great points here.
My problem with mechanicals is what if they don't deploy? Pencil hole in an animal or deploy prematurely and you miss a trophy.
Get fixed blades to fly correctly and you can count on them working. If the first brand or type doesn't work try another, there are hundreds of choices.
Know your limits and practice a lot and you will have success.

 

[SpencerSS]

I agree with a lot of your statements but this clearly points out two differing thought processes that we typically see no matter the type of hunting. And btw, am not intending to ruffle anyone's feathers here. But again there are two theories:

Use a tougher broadhead so you can shoot the animal no matter the angle (shoot the biggest gun you can) or wait for a good angle and apply precise shot placement. (the people shooting light caliber guns)

I wholeheartedly agree that a more robust head will help the average hunter because that's where the statistics are coming from but broadhead design will never make up for poor shooting ability, lack of practice, and lack of patience. (It doesn't matter how big of a gun you gut shoot an elk with....it's still gut shot.)

Not exactly. If you'd look up the little bit of research that has been done, or collect enough yourself; you'd see that even great shots often suffer from crappy broadheads. Some collections of data indicate substantial failure rates when the shot was a 'prefect' broadside shot and all the broadhead hit was a rib.

And unlike the gun side, it's not a trade off. You can have it all with a bow. The only things you can't have together is speed/flat trajectory and heavy arrows. But you can still make precise shots with good, tough broadheads.

I'm not suggesting shooting better broadheads so you can take bad shots and not worry about where you hit. I'm suggesting it because with archery there is a high chance that it could be a 'bad shot' no matter how good you are.

This isn't like arguing big gun vs small gun. This is like arguing hunting bullet vs using light varmint bullet for big game. Yes the 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tip in a 243win will kill deer more than half the time, but it doesn't make it a good choice, and it sure as hell doesn't negate the fact that it will often fail to penetrate vitals and cause a wounded mess.

Ex: I had 4 reports of rage 2blade broadheads hitting nothing but ribs and failing to go into the chest cavity in 2010. This is unexceptable in my book. P.S. one of those customers killed the deer latter in the year and brought the rib with the broadhead stuck in it by the store. Sad.

 

[Nomosendero]

Not exactly. If you'd look up the little bit of research that has been done, or collect enough yourself; you'd see that even great shots often suffer from crappy broadheads. Some collections of data indicate substantial failure rates when the shot was a 'prefect' broadside shot and all the broadhead hit was a rib.

And unlike the gun side, it's not a trade off. You can have it all with a bow. The only things you can't have together is speed/flat trajectory and heavy arrows. But you can still make precise shots with good, tough broadheads.

I'm not suggesting shooting better broadheads so you can take bad shots and not worry about where you hit. I'm suggesting it because with archery there is a high chance that it could be a 'bad shot' no matter how good you are.

This isn't like arguing big gun vs small gun. This is like arguing hunting bullet vs using light varmint bullet for big game. Yes the 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tip in a 243win will kill deer more than half the time, but it doesn't make it a good choice, and it sure as hell doesn't negate the fact that it will often fail to penetrate vitals and cause a wounded mess.

Ex: I had 4 reports of rage 2blade broadheads hitting nothing but ribs and failing to go into the chest cavity in 2010. This is unexceptable in my book. P.S. one of those customers killed the deer latter in the year and brought the rib with the broadhead stuck in it by the store. Sad.

Wellsaid!!! That's pretty compelling evidence on the Rage, I have been interested in those, but never went that route.

Gentlemen, what about the Ramcat?

 

[SpencerSS]

Wellsaid!!! That's pretty compelling evidence on the Rage, I have been interested in those, but never went that route.

Gentlemen, what about the Ramcat?

Though I'm not a big fan of mechs, the ramcats have done pretty good in our tests. It's only real failures have come from scapula and legbone impacts.

 

[squirrelduster]

Only failures have come from leg bone and scapula impacts and the screws come loose?
What if your shot is off and you hit a leg bone?
The more moving parts, the more that goes wrong. I read one post about a bent blade after shooting a turkey.
Get your bow to shoot a broadhead with no moving parts and you don't need to worry about what didn't work correctly.
Sharpen it up good so it will shave and it doesn't really matter who makes it. The less the blade angle the more penetration but if you shoot deer or turkeys the blade angle doesn't matter much. Most fixed blade broadheads are considerably tougher than mechanical's. The blade is supported along the entire length.
The mechanical heads all have one thing in common, a hinge point, the entire integrity of the head is based on how good the hinge point it is and how much leverage can be exerted on the blade. Some of the hinge points are very weak, some have the hinge point at one end of the blade that allows the blade to bend easier.
If you are shooting big hogs through the front plate or elk you will find out how good your head is.