Brass manufacturer difference?

[michael carlucci]

my best loads ever were with winchester brass i have used norma ,nosler,winchester, hornady,and remington brass ,all worked fine remington brass i needed to drop a gr or two using the same powder im just guessing slighty thicker brass when using max loads.
most consistent was norma and def longer case life winchester brass split case necks more than a few times but always seemed equal to norma for accuracy.

 

[Deepins]

I have to agree with many here about Hornady brass. We just loaded first time load
with Varget powder and went to the range and first time we split one of the necks
on the Hornady brass. I was not pleased to say the least.
This was the first time loaded. We scaled each load doing .3 between loads to
find a sweet spot in our powder charge.
Thank you
Dee

 

[planetwaves]

I am looking at getting into reloading (.223, 7mm-08 and 308 Win). I am trying to put my equipment list together. All rifles will be used for hunting purposes only.

I know Lapua and Norma seem to be the "best", but what are the differences between each brand? What makes Hornady brass not as good as Winchester, and what makes Lapua better than Winchester?

Does Lapua require less case prep tools than Winchester or Remington?

So many questions....

Thanks
Steve

40 years ago when I first started reloading, I had accumulated a large stash of Winchester and Federal brass from factory ammo. Back then they worked fine. But when it came time to buy new brass, I tried Nosler and Hornady. Nosler could be loaded with no prep, but Hornady required fl resize, trim, flash hole cleaning. Noticed a 70 FPS average difference between the two boxes of Hornady and a quite large spread in FPS within each box (same load). Whereas Nosler was consistent between boxes and much smaller spread than Hornady. So have stayed with Nosler.

A couple of years ago, I bought a new rifle and bought some Winchester ballistic silver tip factory ammo in the nickel cases to break in the barrel. Not impressed with the ammo, but proceeded to reload the cases. Several were deformed at the bottom and would not fit the shell holder so we're discarded Also the neck thickness was lopsided on most cases (one side significantly thinner than the other). I decided they were not worth trying to salvage so dropped them into the brass recycling bin at the range. If that is representative of Winchester brass, I'll pass.

 

[vancewalker007]

Just getting into reloaded, I will tell you this about brass. Once you choose a manufacturer you need to try and stick with them otherwise you could impact you group results or even run into pressure if you are running at the max. For example if you choose Norma, stick with it, knowing you may have to re-do your recipe if you switch to something else. Good luck with what you choose.

 

[Susquatch]

I have 2 rifles capable of the 5.56. I keep the casings separated and wondering if it's necessary.

Well, it doesn't really matter if the brass is different then because you need to keep them separated anyway. You should NEVER use any brass in more than just one rifle. Lots of people do it (especially those that full length size every time), but it's a very bad practice that will bite you REALLY REALLY HARD someday where it REALLY REALLY HURTS. It's not if, it's only when. Even rifles chambered with the same reamer should have their own separate brass because headspace can be different.

 

[Dell]

I am looking at getting into reloading (.223, 7mm-08 and 308 Win). I am trying to put my equipment list together. All rifles will be used for hunting purposes only.

I know Lapua and Norma seem to be the "best", but what are the differences between each brand? What makes Hornady brass not as good as Winchester, and what makes Lapua better than Winchester?

Does Lapua require less case prep tools than Winchester or Remington?

So many questions....

Thanks
Steve

Lapua, Lapua, Lapua. Norma is choice 2 with me. But, I had a batch of 300 Win Norma brass that you could barely get a primer in. I like a tight primer pocket but that batch was really bad. Shortly after that I read on a forum another guy actually blew a primer trying to force it into a piece of Norma brass. However, Norma is weight consistent and usually quality made. My 300 Win batch was an exception, not the rule. Remington, Winchester and Hornady, brass, not so much with me. The brass weights truly are all over the place and the flash holes are punched necessitating deburring every case. I've never got the number of quality reloadings from Win or Rem brass that I get from Lapua. Anyway, my #1 choice is always Lapua.

 

[Zep]

As mentioned above - When you choose a brass for a specific rifle try to stick with it. That is why I am looking for LC for my AR platform. If I use another manufacturer I will have to start all over with ladder test. And I can't see loading Lapua for an AR even though I shoot it at targets out to 600 yards.

 

[DavidleeCole]

As in most other things, there is top quality, consumer quality, and junk. Most has to do with consistency and QC.

For me, and ALL of my rifles are hunting rifles, I use the best available components for my handloads. Gives the rifle a better opportunity at accuracy.
Lapua is my first choice if it is available in the case I am loading.
ADG and Alpha are my second choices.
These 3 seem to have outstanding QC, and very consistent procedures and end product. It is very common to have 100 pieces in a box be within 1 grain of brass weight across them. The brass is very well made, annealed, and fully prepped.

Next would be Nosler or Norma. These are very similar in weight to Lapua/ADG/Alpha as far as weight sorted. But these cases seem to be a little softer around the head, and do not handle pressures quite as well. Still great brass.

Rem & Win are much cheaper. Weights start to vary with these. You can see 3-5 grains difference in 100 pieces. Little brass prep is performed on virgin brass, so you need to do some extra work. Weight sort and expect an 20% cull rate on out of spec brass, outside of a 2-3 grain difference. Uniform primer pockets, deburr flash holes, round out the necks, chamfer inside and out. But the costs allow you to buy twice as much for the same as above. So you end up with about 160 pieces for the same price range as 100 of the top tier brass.

There are a few brands I won't even consider for my rifles. Hornady and Federal. Weight is all over the place, primer pockets seem to go quickly, and they take a lot of prep to get ready. Plan on 40% cull rate if you want to keep it within 2-3 grains from what I have observed.

I have not tried Starline or Petersons. But I hear decent reviews on them. Especially Petersen's.

Bertram is supposed to be good, but my one experience with it (in .338 Edge) was quite disappointing. 8 grains of weight variation across 100 pieces.

In .308 & 5.56, I like Lake City military brass too. Tough as nails. Decent quality. Easy to find.

There are other less common makers out there like RWS that have good brass. Just quite rare to see it.

Thank you for the great advice and information.

 

[Whitesheep]

A brass tale of two rifles.

1) Gasser in .308: Very picky about powder brand, seating depth and bullet weight/brand, but doesn't give a wif about brass type or powder weight. Military, range waste, Nosler, Hornady brass all shoot the same with the same powder type & charge/seating depth/bullet. I know this doesn't fit the theory, but it is what it is. BTW this gun (FNAR) is notorious for being difficult to load for, but is 1 MOA with it's pet load.

2) Bolt .280 AI Nosler M48: Only likes Nosler factory virgin brass and subsequent reloads of the same. Fire formed .280 isn't all that great so I don't do this anymore. Keep it in the family I guess.

Small sample size I know, but these are the two extremes of the 8 rifles I handload for. None of the others are as picky. What I learned is brass can matter, but it is just part of the unique recipe that has to be found for each rifle.

Note I am a hunter 1st and target shooter 2nd. My accuracy goal is a usable 1 MOA, which all my rifles meet or better. If you are looking for more than 1 MOA the road is long and winding.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I haven't taken the time to read all the responses, so I am probably not offering anything new, but a 5-star bag of brass will have no dents or crushed mouths, weight will be within a grain or two in weight throughout the lot, run out on the neck will all be less than .003". Neck thickness will be less than a thousandth variation, and all primer pockets will be uniform with burr-less flash holes. Of all these qualities, weight is probably of the least importance because all one needs to do to overcome a wide spread in weight variation is just buy more of the brass to be able to sort more pieces into lots of acceptable variation. Hornady is a good example here. QC at Hornady has gotten MUCH better over the past 2 - 3 years. While you still may find weights vary through a box or bag ad much as 5 or 6 grains, concentricity and uniformity have dramatically improved.

As far as shooting faster given a common charge of powder in contrast to other brands, this typically means the "faster" brass is thicker, giving a smaller internal volume. This increases pressure and thus velocity. It may be faster, but not necessarily better. I've gotten 1 very mediocre lot of Lapua brass and that was in 223 Remington Match. I have gotten some amazing groups from Winchester, but I may have had to go through a bag and a half to get enough pieces of decent quality to make a group.

I consider Lapua, Norma, and Nosler all top tier, and I've heard nothing but rave reviews on Petersen, though I haven't tried it. I found Jagemann 300 Win to be pretty good stuff, but with high weight variation. Winchester is the worst, because you'll have to throw away as many as a half dozen cases from every bag because of manufacturing defects or dented cases so severe they will affect capacity and pressure. Some necks may be split, too. Nothing is uniform. You may go through a bag and not find 5 that can be made into a single group.

Weatherby brass is excellent if you use those calibers. It is made by Norma and held to even tighter tolerances. I generally buy Norma when I can find it, or Hornady if I can't. I don't necessarily believe it's necessary to spend that kind of money on Lapua or Nosler. Norma is plenty good and Hornady is adequate if you sort them well and grab a couple bags to make sure you have enough good ones. My next choice is Federal Premium, and I do have a couple bags of that lying around. One last wor: If you can find some OLD Winchester WW headstamp brass, BUY IT! It use to be among the best made!

 

[Code4]

I've been reloading hunting ammo for 29 years (I started late) and never had the need for premium brass (while I could still stalk to within 200 yards). Unless you have an accurate digital scale to weigh and sort brass, sticking with Winchester and Remington brass will make no difference.

 

[Oxobrianne 272]

I am looking at getting into reloading (.223, 7mm-08 and 308 Win). I am trying to put my equipment list together. All rifles will be used for hunting purposes only.

I know Lapua and Norma seem to be the "best", but what are the differences between each brand? What makes Hornady brass not as good as Winchester, and what makes Lapua better than Winchester?

Does Lapua require less case prep tools than Winchester or Remington?

So many questions....

Thanks
Steve

 

[Oxobrianne 272]

Lapua brass comes neck sized and chamfered and trimmed to length. You can pop a primer in and load directly out of the box. HOWEVER - a few of us in the U.K. have found that Lapua .223 brass seems to 'gall' when you try to remove it from the shell holder - this can be extremely annoying!!! .308 and 6.5 x55 Swedish are fine.
I've had problems with Winchester brass in .303 (British) - 200 cases and the neck of every case looks as though it had been trimmed with a very coarse hacksaw and then squeezed with a pair of pliers!!! I had to gently tap the necks open using the shaft of a centre punch before I could trim them to length. I then had to remove a considerable amount of brass from the primer pocket using a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer. The last Winchester brass I'll be buying.
Hope the first part of this post was useful.

 

[Bruce Treloar]

I've been reloading hunting ammo for 29 years (I started late) and never had the need for premium brass (while I could still stalk to within 200 yards). Unless you have an accurate digital scale to weigh and sort brass, sticking with Winchester and Remington brass will make no difference.