Brass Cleaner - Sonic or Vibrating?

[scottishkat]

I went through these questions about 5 years ago and was considering sonic and stainless or more likely Thumlers.

Anyway I tried and several others including flitz which were not much better. Then I used a combination of used dryer sheets and a teaspoon of lacquer thinner with walnut shell media each time I run my old RCBS vibratory case cleaner and results have been much better I decided to save the $ for other things.

An added bonus is that I have not changed the walnut shell media in years.

All this becomes a matter of personal tastes my dad has been running 30-06 match brass from the 50's and has never cleaned a case other than brushing and compressed air on rare occasions.

Good luck and shoot straight y'all

 

[J E Custom]

Wouldn't it take a bunch of the media to do any harm to a barrel. Also, since the media is usually something like walnut shells or corncob wouldn't that small amount burn up during ignition? Just curious and would appreciate your thoughts.

Good question Rick

All media is treated with an abrasive, if you use it many times it becomes ineffective and takes a long time to do any polishing. You can add this abrasive to revive your media by adding it to your media and bring it back to life Like this Lyman product. (There are many brands). https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1064672201/lyman-turbo-charger-media-reactivator

The corncob or Walnut in it's self is only the media that carries/absorbs the activator and is not abrasive enough to do the job. I have left cases running in the vibratory polisher for 24 hours and it did not clean up the cases because the media was worn out and needed to be replaced or re activated.

The active abrasive is not flammable and does not burn up, so if not removed from the inside of the case before loading, will end up going down the barrel and increasing wear. The activators are the same as in the new media in many cases and if you look at the products in it, it is some form of polish that has to remove the corrosion in order to polish.

In a vibratory tumbler it is not under any pressure so it is not as aggressive as it is under 55,000+ PSI when fired.

To get an idea of how much is left in the case, take a Q tip and swab the inside of a polished case that has not been cleaned/washed after polishing. much of this debris is abrasives.

I have nothing against this process, in fact I use it in some instances
along with other methods mentioned.

My experiences also have been that truly clean cases inside and out perform better and don't contribute to barrel or chamber wear and with high volume shooting, any thing that can reduce barrel life is important to me.

I want something to clean the outside of the case, the inside of the case and neck and the primer pocket. for this degree of cleaning, vibratory cleaning would be my last choice if i were ask.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Rick Richard]

Good question Rick

All media is treated with an abrasive, if you use it many times it becomes ineffective and takes a long time to do any polishing. You can add this abrasive to revive your media by adding it to your media and bring it back to life Like this Lyman product. (There are many brands). https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1064672201/lyman-turbo-charger-media-reactivator

The corncob or Walnut in it's self is only the media that carries/absorbs the activator and is not abrasive enough to do the job. I have left cases running in the vibratory polisher for 24 hours and it did not clean up the cases because the media was worn out and needed to be replaced or re activated.

The active abrasive is not flammable and does not burn up, so if not removed from the inside of the case before loading, will end up going down the barrel and increasing wear. The activators are the same as in the new media in many cases and if you look at the products in it, it is some form of polish that has to remove the corrosion in order to polish.

In a vibratory tumbler it is not under any pressure so it is not as aggressive as it is under 55,000+ PSI when fired.

To get an idea of how much is left in the case, take a Q tip and swab the inside of a polished case that has not been cleaned/washed after polishing. much of this debris is abrasives.

I have nothing against this process, in fact I use it in some instances
along with other methods mentioned.

My experiences also have been that truly clean cases inside and out perform better and don't contribute to barrel or chamber wear and with high volume shooting, any thing that can reduce barrel life is important to me.

I want something to clean the outside of the case, the inside of the case and neck and the primer pocket. for this degree of cleaning, vibratory cleaning would be my last choice if i were ask.

J E CUSTOM

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[FURMAN]

Why does removing carbon inside the neck effect ES and SD negativity? I would think the cleaner your case, the more consistent the load.

The carbon acts as a lube. Test it yourself. You can actually feel the difference in seating pressure. You can definitely see it on a chrono.

 

[BigSky112]

Why does removing carbon inside the neck effect ES and SD negativity? I would think the cleaner your case, the more consistent the load.

I guess he would fire form all new cases in that case. I don't believe the carbon would do that ! In fact leaving carbon would do that !

 

[foul bore]

I have used both, and still do in some situations. I prefer the sonic, very clean in a short time. rinse with distilled water to keep from discoloration. primer pockets and flash holes get really clean

 

[kraig]

I have both. I only sonic clean if/when brass gets very dirty. The sonic cleaner removes carbon inside the neck and effects ES and SD. If only getting one get a vibrator and use lizard bedding with flitz.

That is walnut shell just in case you're wondering. Walnut shell + some flitz metal cleaner in a vibrating tumbler. The stuff they put down under bird play pens is also untreated walnut shell.

 

[kraig]

I can't speak to sonic cleaners. I currently use the wet tumble and really like it for how clean it gets everything inside and out. I tend to like the idea of perfectly clean for as perfect consistency as possible and it looks nice. Don't know why that matters to me but it does.

Tumbling always seemed very messy to me. I was always getting walnut shell or corn cobb all over the place and I don't like the idea of shooting abrasives down the barrel. I didn't care until I started spending decent money on nicer barrels. If I were still shooting bone stock rifles I might still use a vibrating cleaner, but now mine has sat for years. Truth be told I only switched over because I got a tumbler that was in the bargain cave at Cabelas for dirt cheap. (someone thought it would be cheaper to buy the cleaner, take the stainless rods, & return it wo/everything in the box) Still ended up only spending 100 between new media and the new tumbler.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The carbon acts as a lube. Test it yourself. You can actually feel the difference in seating pressure. You can definitely see it on a chrono.

Properly cleaning your brass, and using Imperial Sizing Wax on the inside and outside of the necks does the same thing, but the brass is still clean.

 

[SavageHunter11]

The carbon acts as a lube. Test it yourself. You can actually feel the difference in seating pressure. You can definitely see it on a chrono.

I guess he would fire form all new cases in that case. I don't believe the carbon would do that ! In fact leaving carbon would do that !

Haha, well that's definitive. Guess I'll try tumbling a batch and sonic cleaning a batch and see what the results are but I'll say this, I'm extremely sceptical that carbon residue in my brass will ever be a benefit.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Haha, well that's definitive. Guess I'll try tumbling a batch and sonic cleaning a batch and see what the results are but I'll say this, I'm extremely sceptical that carbon residue in my brass will ever be a benefit.

Actually, brass is just like any other vessel that holds liquids or powders... If enough carbon residue builds up on the inside walls, it will change the internal volume of the brass, which can create pressure issues.

 

[g0cherr]

I have been sonic cleaning for years. After reading in here about case volumes I figured it was the best method for addressing this issue with carbon build up. I had never considered the effect on my chrono but I will have to play with that now. I have found that the oven placed on 170 for 30 minutes does a great job of drying out the inside of the cases so I don't have to wait hours to reload. I will caution that the theory more is better didn't work. I tried the oven on 350 for 15 minutes but discolored the entire case and made me nervous about weakening the base area. Great discussion topic.

 

[FURMAN]

Properly cleaning your brass, and using Imperial Sizing Wax on the inside and outside of the necks does the same thing, but the brass is still clean.

You guys do what works for you. I see ES climb into the 20s with sonic cleaning with the first firing. I see single digits with tumbling. This maintains up until the brass is junk I could not care less what others do. You can do what you want with the free information provided. I tried it in multiple rifles/cartridges. That is enough for me to never check again. If I start seeing ES grow I will take another look.Who cares what your brass looks like? If it is not getting crap in my chamber and my ES/SD is small I think I will keep doing it my way. Good luck.

 

[planetwaves]

Sonic or Vibrating, which works the best and why?

Thanks!!!

I used the vibratory method with walnut media for 30+ years, but decided to try the Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Rotary Case Tumbler. It is a more cumbersome process for sure, but the results are great. I have not bothered with the steel pin media yet (but I did buy the optional magnet for if/when I do try it). I de-prime first, then fill the tank with water, add a small amount of the cleaning solution, add brass and tumble for two hours. Rinse and dry. I just put on a cookie sheet in the oven at 200 degrees and they dry pretty quickly. Some use a food dehydrator, some use a hair dryer, some buy one of the several dryers sold by various companies.

After resizing, some run it through again to remove lube. I use Hornady One-shot, so just wipe the outside of the case and don't clean the inside. I have to confess that I am not a true long range shooter. Our shooting range goes out to 600 yards. When hunting, I keep my shots within 500 yards, preferably within 400 (I'm getting old and not a steady as I once was). So my reloading practices might not be up to par with long range precision shooters. But they work for me.