So I picked up some 300 Win brass, it came with 7 loaded rounds. One of which was a 7mm brass that was apparently fire formed and loaded as a 300, talk about a SHORT neck, lol. Anyway I used my mistake hammer and unloaded them. They were 150gr bullets, the seven rounds held 435gr of extruded powder, or 62gr per round, no idea what that could be. So in the campfire it goes. Now what to do with the 6 primed cases? I decided since I did not trust any aspect of these loads I would just pop them out the back door. Gotta love living in the country...lol. Did you know a LR primer will shoot a 2" flame out of a 24" barrel! LOL. When I looked at the brass the primers were sticking out 10-11 thou! I have overthought this, read, overthought it some more. The only thing that makes sense is that, THAT is the headspace of this factory Savage 111, 24" light Sporter, .550" at the muzzle. I though well I'll set it back a bit. I have a Savage barrel wrench, but that sucker is on there tighter than "putting the receiver in a padded vice" can handle. Any one in west central Nebraska want to take a crack at loosening it, or can someone advise on a barrel vise that will work on a barrel with that much taper?
Belted Headspace
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Don't mess with headspace without a go no go gauge. You could create a huge issue.
cdherman
Well-Known Member
Woa, don't worry about what you saw. Here's what happened: A factory or FL resized belted mag case spaces off the belt. You could argue there is no such thing as "headspace". That's not really true, but for folks never reloading, a belted magnum will have very generous base to shoulder dimensions. The design was for easy chambering. Not reloading.
Now, when you snap fired those primers, the firing pin drove the case the 10 thou or so forward till it was spaced off the belt. And then there was a quick pressure spike which blew the primer back till it hit the bolt face. When you fire a full loaded round, the next phase is where the case gets blown out into the chamber dimensions, and stretched rearward back to the bolt face. The primer gets "reinserted" into the pocket.
Because there was no powder, your cases never stretched back to the bolt face. The force of the primer (and the fact that the firing pin sprang back into the bolt) popped the primer out a bit. And there it stayed.
Its darn unlikely that Savage shipped a gun with bad headspacing. Could be a tad generous. If you reload, you can transition to headspacing your belted magnum off the shoulder. Less case stretch, better accuracy. Learn to set the dies to just bump the shoulder back .002 or so. Problem with belted magnums is that over time the shoulder approach will result in inadequately sized cases right distal to the belt. Someone makes a collet die to fix this. I have one. Name blanks me.
Now, when you snap fired those primers, the firing pin drove the case the 10 thou or so forward till it was spaced off the belt. And then there was a quick pressure spike which blew the primer back till it hit the bolt face. When you fire a full loaded round, the next phase is where the case gets blown out into the chamber dimensions, and stretched rearward back to the bolt face. The primer gets "reinserted" into the pocket.
Because there was no powder, your cases never stretched back to the bolt face. The force of the primer (and the fact that the firing pin sprang back into the bolt) popped the primer out a bit. And there it stayed.
Its darn unlikely that Savage shipped a gun with bad headspacing. Could be a tad generous. If you reload, you can transition to headspacing your belted magnum off the shoulder. Less case stretch, better accuracy. Learn to set the dies to just bump the shoulder back .002 or so. Problem with belted magnums is that over time the shoulder approach will result in inadequately sized cases right distal to the belt. Someone makes a collet die to fix this. I have one. Name blanks me.
thisHere is the thing. I got this gun used. Hence why I am here, I have no history with this rifle. .010-.011" just seems crazy excessive. You are right though, and I do plan to just shoulder bump .002". Thus negating any factory issue with the headspace between the belt and bolt face. I have rebarreled some non belted Savages, and just turned the barrel in with disassembled factory round or a sized case in the chamber untill it stopped, thus giving zero headspace. That was kinda my thought on this, it may not set back any at all if the chamber wall is already contacing the bolt. That would require a bit of facing on a lathe.
I agree with your first post… you may be overthinking all of this.. is this new brass, maybe i missed that part? if it is, .010 is not out of the norm. once it is loaded and fired it will form to your chamber and then you can FL size and set the shoulder back the .002 New or factory brass headspaces off the belt for the first firing, after that treat it like all others.
If these were fired in another gun already, check each one if they fit in your gun then just size them to reset your neck without bumping the shoulder back. Then back to normal operations after that. I agree with the other poster, I dont think you have a gun problem
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
I cracked the barrel loose easily on my Savage Striker using a nut wrench and this little puppy
www.midwayusa.com
I didn't even bother to permanently mount the vise... I just locked it down to my bench with the biggest C clamps I could find...
you will need at least a go gauge for belted mag's though
Wheeler Barrel Vise 3 Wood Bushings
The Wheeler Barrel Vise provides plenty of holding force to securely clamp your barrel for removal or installation. Includes 3 wood bushings, one...
www.midwayusa.com
I didn't even bother to permanently mount the vise... I just locked it down to my bench with the biggest C clamps I could find...
you will need at least a go gauge for belted mag's though
cdherman
Well-Known Member
If your gun does have generous headspace, either to the belt groove or the shoulder, reloading carefully to not oversize the shoulder will prevent the ultimate problem with too much headspace: case separation from multiple stretching's.
As for setting headspace to "zero" as described, that also is not optimal. Too little headspace and your FL die will not be able to size the case down enough to allow easy chambering. Don't ask how I know! Two layers of scotch tape is the savage shooter work around. Or I can give you the official line of " you need a go gage".
As for setting headspace to "zero" as described, that also is not optimal. Too little headspace and your FL die will not be able to size the case down enough to allow easy chambering. Don't ask how I know! Two layers of scotch tape is the savage shooter work around. Or I can give you the official line of " you need a go gage".
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
PTG Headspace Go Ga 243 Winchester, 260 Remington, 7mm-08 Remington,
The PTG Headspace Go Gauges are necessary when finish chambering a barrel, or when checking the chamber of a used gun to be sure the headspace...
www.midwayusa.com
I don't know why it keeps showing the 243 one... you'll have to scroll down to belted mag... same price...
I found this thread, https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/300-win-mag-headspace.208001/ ,Funny thing is I felt like I was in the middle of BigEdP51 & JECustom. Even though they got to bickering, I understood what BOTH were saying, they were just having a hard time articulating it to each other via print.
To answer a question, this is a used rifle and the were handloads that I disassembled and popped the primers in the rifle. The result was primer backed out .010-.011" I would prefer like JECustom says in his explanation, .001" in a perfect world with perfect 0 variance brass. So .003-.004" for reliability. I fully understand setting dies to shoulder bump .002 would solve the problem. But so would setting the barrel back .007-.008", this would have the side benefit of reducing initial stretch.
To answer a question, this is a used rifle and the were handloads that I disassembled and popped the primers in the rifle. The result was primer backed out .010-.011" I would prefer like JECustom says in his explanation, .001" in a perfect world with perfect 0 variance brass. So .003-.004" for reliability. I fully understand setting dies to shoulder bump .002 would solve the problem. But so would setting the barrel back .007-.008", this would have the side benefit of reducing initial stretch.
But I think you got the primer backing out that much as was explained up top, was because they weren't loaded rounds, just popping primers on an empty case..
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
I've used the empty primed case a number of times to show me the approximate headspace on a given chamber... I went to snug on my 7-08 chamber when I headspaced it and popped one off after I put it back together- it showed just proud. I also did it lately to fire check my 7stw after I put a new Timney in her; it was only a few thou proud and my 'smith set her for 5 thou...I wanted it plenty loose for hunting... I'm now actually partial fl sizing (just started- brass availability sucks)as she was eating up brass at 5 thou. loose.
Thanks for all the replies, I do understand all the ideas and premises. Attention to detail in setting up the sizing die eliminates most of this. It is part of dealing with reloading for factory barrels. Since it is "new" to me, before I had any time, ammo, $ invested, I would try to eliminate most of the factory "tolerance". In a perfect world Tony would rebarrel, the 11 rounds of Hornady I got with it printed about 2", off of a bipod and my shoulder, not shabby for a pencil barrel, and a shoulder of a guy who is past his prime eyesight and trigger wise. Would like to get it to an inch...though...lol
