I like the input of this forum group on bedding/partial bedding/ free floating of light contour hunting rifle barrels. #0 and #1 contours specifically. I see some ultralight manufactures bedding the full length of the barrel and others not. I can't find information on the manufactures that bed if they are preloading or stress free bedding. It seems like a lot of work and materials to try each method. The preload method interests me when done correctly.
Bedding light contour barrel
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Gunpoor
Well-Known Member
I don't have a lot of experience with bedding actions/barrels but what little I have leaves me liking the action bedded through the recoil lug but leaving the barrel free floating. I guess each scenario has it's upside and downside, so mostly I like free floating tubes whether there is action bedding or not.
tinkerer
Well-Known Member
I vote no. Bed action , to back of recoil lug only, and barrel nut, leave barrel alone.
Larry
Larry
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
As a 'light weight' barrel, a #0, #1 0r #2, is NOT a what you would find on a 'target rifle', it only needs to be repeatable for 3 shots, fired in succession, to be 'hunting accurate'. So, creating a pressure point, about an inch to 1 1/4" long, at the front of the forearm may help dampen barrel harmonics. 7lbs or upward pressure max. not bed the entire length of the barrel. While in gunsmith school, during stockmaking (44 weeks of stockmaking) the instructor was a 'believer' in the pressure point on those light weight barrels. It (the pressure point) could always be removed easily, if desired.
The one rifle I've seen shoot better with the forearm point pressure, compared to fully free floated, my Marlin .22 WMR.
I carefully glass bedded the rifle action and stock with the barrel completely free floated from the action forward. It shot worse than it did before I glass bedded it. So I decided to add some slight pressure to the end of the forearm. Much better than free floated. But not a lot better than it was as bedded from the factory. But this is a cheesy action and stock compared to most high powered rifles. Not the best comparison...
But light forearm tip pressure does occasionally calm down a rifle that's behaving like a wild hare. This based on the observations of a local gunsmith with over 30yrs gunsmithing. He hears about lots of experiences from his customers. Happens to be my brother, so I get to pick his brain more than most of his customers.
I carefully glass bedded the rifle action and stock with the barrel completely free floated from the action forward. It shot worse than it did before I glass bedded it. So I decided to add some slight pressure to the end of the forearm. Much better than free floated. But not a lot better than it was as bedded from the factory. But this is a cheesy action and stock compared to most high powered rifles. Not the best comparison...
But light forearm tip pressure does occasionally calm down a rifle that's behaving like a wild hare. This based on the observations of a local gunsmith with over 30yrs gunsmithing. He hears about lots of experiences from his customers. Happens to be my brother, so I get to pick his brain more than most of his customers.
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Just a little trick I have had good success with on light barrels.
Bed the action and 1/2 inch in front of the recoil lug. Free float the rest of the barrel. Then after the bedding has cured, place two strips of foam tape in the barrel channel in the vicinity of the front sling swivel to form a 1/2" wide band of bedding material. Add bedding compound to the channel formed by the tape and place the action back in the bedding and let the barrel press out any excess compound, this band will exert zero pressure on the barrel but will dampen the barrel when fired to minimize barrel whip.
If accuracy doesn't improve, simply remove this band of bedding. Preloading a barrel may work for the first shot consistency, but as soon as the barrel changes temperature the zero is subject to change.
This method replaces the old method of installing preload screws to the forearm.
J E CUSTOM
Bed the action and 1/2 inch in front of the recoil lug. Free float the rest of the barrel. Then after the bedding has cured, place two strips of foam tape in the barrel channel in the vicinity of the front sling swivel to form a 1/2" wide band of bedding material. Add bedding compound to the channel formed by the tape and place the action back in the bedding and let the barrel press out any excess compound, this band will exert zero pressure on the barrel but will dampen the barrel when fired to minimize barrel whip.
If accuracy doesn't improve, simply remove this band of bedding. Preloading a barrel may work for the first shot consistency, but as soon as the barrel changes temperature the zero is subject to change.
This method replaces the old method of installing preload screws to the forearm.
J E CUSTOM
trumperman
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 1, 2017
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I've found that free floating USUALLY helps my light conture barrels.
An easy way to try it, is to put a shim under the locking lug. An old credit card is usually the right thickness. If it don't shoot better, just take it back out!
I know of one old time shooter that swore the EXACT amout of up pressure that was needed was 12 Lbs. He would hook a scale to the forearm and pull down 'till he got to 12 Lbs. then mesure the gap and shim accordingly
An easy way to try it, is to put a shim under the locking lug. An old credit card is usually the right thickness. If it don't shoot better, just take it back out!
I know of one old time shooter that swore the EXACT amout of up pressure that was needed was 12 Lbs. He would hook a scale to the forearm and pull down 'till he got to 12 Lbs. then mesure the gap and shim accordingly
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
The truth of the matter is, "there are no hard and fast rules", every rifle is an individual. What one likes another may not like. As for the 7#, if that seems like too much reduce it some. The one 'rule' that there is, is the pressure needs to be straight up. If it pushes to one side, or the other, you know what'll happen!
Wow 44 weeks of stock making! You must have been doing gold inlays 
The consensus seems to be start with free floating. Test shoot, and if results aren't good enough, try the small pressure point. I've heard of the shim and using weights on the front swivel to get precise pressure. Easy enough to remove a small section of bedding. I don't want to removing bedding from the whole barrel channel. Done that before and didn't like it or the waste of material.
For you that are smiths for a living, would you always issue an ultra light free floated and wait of the customer to come back before trying some form of barrel bedding? No one would want to have a customer come back wanting a fix. Maybe barrels are different enough so that it can't be avoided.
The consensus seems to be start with free floating. Test shoot, and if results aren't good enough, try the small pressure point. I've heard of the shim and using weights on the front swivel to get precise pressure. Easy enough to remove a small section of bedding. I don't want to removing bedding from the whole barrel channel. Done that before and didn't like it or the waste of material.
For you that are smiths for a living, would you always issue an ultra light free floated and wait of the customer to come back before trying some form of barrel bedding? No one would want to have a customer come back wanting a fix. Maybe barrels are different enough so that it can't be avoided.
Not a gunsmith. But the reason I dislike stock contact with the barrel is it creates a lot of potential for POI changes over time. If the stock warps (wood) in different temps and humidity, then the POI will change. I have slight POI shifts even with the most stable stocks in the world, and fully free floated barrels.
So as a hunter trying to improve first shot success rates, I would always try full free floating first, and only revert to the less desirable "end of forearm" pressure point as a last resort.
As mentioned, if gunsmith's could know ahead of time which would produce the best rifle precision, we wouldn't be having this discussion. They would always bed the rifle using the "known" best method to optimize precision and client appreciation.
Only reason I tried forearm pressure on my 22WMR was because accuracy deteriorated with a quality free float bedding job. And that didn't make a lotta sense. So I gave forearm pressure a go. It worked well and precision improved. But now I've got a wood stocked rifle that will change POI about as often as the barometer changes thru the week.
So as a hunter trying to improve first shot success rates, I would always try full free floating first, and only revert to the less desirable "end of forearm" pressure point as a last resort.
As mentioned, if gunsmith's could know ahead of time which would produce the best rifle precision, we wouldn't be having this discussion. They would always bed the rifle using the "known" best method to optimize precision and client appreciation.
Only reason I tried forearm pressure on my 22WMR was because accuracy deteriorated with a quality free float bedding job. And that didn't make a lotta sense. So I gave forearm pressure a go. It worked well and precision improved. But now I've got a wood stocked rifle that will change POI about as often as the barometer changes thru the week.
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Back before I did my own gun work, I had a sporter with a tupperwear stock that would not group consistently. I tried firm and soft fore end rests with no improvement. I tried firmly gripping the fore end and noticed that my grip affected the POI. (light bulb) I took it to a smith who then free floated it and bedded the recoil lug. No problems after that. I also has one with a floated barrel but when a bipod was used, it flexed the stock enough to make contact. Had to have 0.050"+ gap at the fore end before it wouldn't touch.
Therefore, how is POI effected when using a fore end bedding method in conjunction with a bipod? Seems that using a bipod, branch, or fence as a fore end rest would cause POI changes. Using a backpack that spreads the weight out may not affect POI as much!?!?
I guess all this information just gives me an excuse to go shoot more
BTW, the stock I plan to use is carbon fiber. I expect very little flex.
phorwath, I can't shoot well enough to determine that fiberglass or laminated stocks change with weather.
Therefore, how is POI effected when using a fore end bedding method in conjunction with a bipod? Seems that using a bipod, branch, or fence as a fore end rest would cause POI changes. Using a backpack that spreads the weight out may not affect POI as much!?!?
I guess all this information just gives me an excuse to go shoot more
BTW, the stock I plan to use is carbon fiber. I expect very little flex.
phorwath, I can't shoot well enough to determine that fiberglass or laminated stocks change with weather.
phorwath, I can't shoot well enough to determine that fiberglass or laminated stocks change with weather.
Hah... Lol
A little more background/clarification might be in order on my experience with POI shifts. Last fall/winter, I ran an experiment with 5 of what I considered my better rifles. About every 3-5 weeks I'd haul them all out, let them come to ambient air temps along with the ammo. Fire one shot with each at 300yds and record POIs. Well they all experienced minor POI shifts over time. That's what I was referring to. All synthetic and "stable" stocks. "Minor" yet disappointing small shifts in POI was the norm. Could be optical related? Could be temp related? Could be me related. Trigger finger related. One rifle consistently performed a little better than the others. But the shifts in POI were there enough that I felt they were not simply background noise/clutter. I think they were real. Generally less than 1.5" shifts from zero at 300yds. Consistent with what I've experienced over the past 10 -15 years when I check rifle zero just before I take a rifle out hunting. Whatever the gremlin(s) causing the slight shifts in POI are, I believe they are real.
I should also clarify that the general POI shifts were in random directions. Never further and further shifting from zero that increases in one consistent direction. Never really required any turret adjustment. I learned the shifts all varied about the correct turret setting for the rifles, all in all. So I stopped adjusting the turrets and just recorded POIs. Hope this makes sense (more sense).BTW, I have no illusions I'm David Tubbs.
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shortgrass
Well-Known Member
No gold inlays. In that 44 weeks we were required 4 stocks made by hand from blanks (no duplicator used). 2 two piece shotgun stocks, 1 tang style the other thru bolt,,,, 2 bolt action rifle stocks, 1 classic style the other California (Weatherby) style (raised cheek piece). Through test firing you would determine the amount of pressure on the barrel from the forearm. Lots and lots of effort put into sealing the wood,,,,, everywhere. But you never really get it sealed. I can not visualize in my mind a Fox Sterlingworth or a Winchester Hi Wall with a synthetic stock!Wow 44 weeks of stock making! You must have been doing gold inlays
