7mm STW or 300 Win

[dakor]

Well my nephew is moving to Alaska and he wants all around rifle for Moose, Black Bear and Sheep. Now keep in mind he is only going to be 13 in a few months Ultra Mag and Lapua Mag owners.

I have let him shoot my STW and the recoil does not appear to bother him I asked him if it does and he says no he likes shooting it. Well he wanted to shoot my 300 with 200 grainers and I said ok

he shot several shots off hand with it and again I asked him if the recoil bothered him and he says no. Now I have had friends cry about the recoil from both of those guns but I think he is telling the truth and he has never been told about recoil. I just told him to hang on tight and shoot it like the 22 rimfire. Now I think he is telling me the truth and not trying to be macho but I wonder sometimes

He says he wants a 300 win mag what do you guys think?

 

[Guest]

300 WM. In case he runs into something bigger.

Also, moose are big critters. the 300 WM with a 180 TXS will do the job.

 

[jon12]

I would personally prefer the 7 STW. To me this is a great all around rifle that will shoot flatter and have plenty of energy for anything short of big brown bears. It is true that the 300 will handle heavier bullets than any 7mm will which can be seen as an advantage for an all around rifle, with the high velocity of the STW and todays tough premium bullets i wouldnt consider this too much. Plus, in equal weight guns the 7mm actually will have less recoil energy than the 300 with comperable weight bullets.

Its easy to talk a big game and act like it didnt sting alittle bit after shooting a few shots off hand with just about any rifle, but I would actually have the kid sit down and shoot a .223 or 22-250 of known accuracy from a solid bench rest, and then a big magnum like youre talking about off a solid bench rest, and see how the recoil truely affects his shooting. I would always be really hesitant to start a kid off on a big hard kicking magnum because they will almost always develop a flich that will be very hard to get rid of later, I did.

Also, if hes stuck on the 300 WM, have him take a look also at the 300 WSM. This is a really cool little round that will balistically match the 300 WM(ok the WM might have a slight edge with heavier bullets but thats just a technicality), and factory rifles chambered for any WSM cartridge have shown an accuracy edge over most other factory chamberings due to their short efficient powder column and the lack of any freebore in WSM chambers. It will also kick slightly less than the WM because it uses less propellant to acheive the same velocity. It can also be had in a bunch of cool litte short action rifles, or in just about any configuration he might want.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Dakor, what you did not talk about was distance this boy will be shooting at the game. If normal distances of inside 250yds, for the game described, the 7-08 or 308 is all the gun he needs.

Moose are big but not tough to put down. Usual black bear is around 200lbs and under 6ft (will go deeper shortly). Sheep, are like small deer. The big thing is getting the bullet in the right spot.

With the right combo of bullet, you will have no issue putting a 30cal 165gr or 7mm 140gr bullet broadside on any of these animals with quick fatal results. Anything from the Hornady SST/Interbond through to the Nosler partition will do their job just fine.

We are on a big rollercoaster towards super big magnums that most do not shoot well. If this is a dedicated LR rifle, then certainly, bigger is better due to range and reduced impact vel. For reg. still hunting on non disturbed game, the 308/30-06/270/280/7-08 is all you really need.

Now back to the bear. If going after some bruisers, then you are into dangerous game category and neither the 300WM or 7STW is what I would choose. I would go larger bore and much heavier bullet.

On the small bore side would be the 375H&H with the 416 Rigby/458WinMag as possibilities. That black bear may turn into a very large grizzly so...

Jerry

 

[NTM]

I agree with jon12-he should startw ith something smaller like a .308 or 30/06. Both are great hunting rifles aand are deadly up to 2-300 yards. At 13 he should be learning some stalking skills rather than blasting away at something from 500 yards away. plus there is a chance he could develope a flinch from a magnum. It would be easier for him to start small and work his way up to a magnum.

 

[dakor]

Well I suppose I should have went into more detail I started him out with a 22 rimfire 4 years ago and each year I went a little bigger I have had him shoot milk jugs out to 200 yards with my 6mm-284 and 223 and 220 Swift so he can shoot the smaller stuff and this year he wanted to try the big stuff. I feel if you go with a 30/06 you might as well go with the 7MM STW recoil is the same. I think the 30/06 kicks more than the two STW's I have. I had him shoot the STW the other day off hand at 50 yards and he cut a 1/2 inch stick in half so he can shoot. The other problem I have is his parents are only going to buy one rifle that is it. I thought about the 300 or 270 WSM I just was wondering how tough the shells would be to get up in Alaska. If the shells are not that tough to get up there I would probably have them get the 270 shorty he has shot my dads a few times and seems to like that alot. As for a gun for moose I think a 270 wsm would work fine even out to 400 yards with good bullet shot placement is the most important thing. We have it down to a couple rifles the Weatherby Vangard SS or the Ruger M77 SS what do you guys think? Anyone know if short mag shells are hard to come by in Alaska?

 

[dakor]

Another one I thought about was a 280 but again I dont know if shells are hard to come buy up there or not? Then if you go that route you might as well go with a 30/06 wich puts us back to a short mag or STW

 

[jon12]

I shot and hunted with a 30-06 for several years, and have shot my dads 7mm STW quite a bit and can tell you for certain from experience that in guns of similar weight and no brakes(actually my dads STW is considerably heavier than my '06 was), the STW kicks ALOT more. Youre experience might be different but there might be other factors in the rifles or you have just shot the STW so much you dont notice how much it really kicks anymore.

With the popularity of WSMs, i cant imagine that they would be hard to come by anywhere. I would think the STW ammo would actually be alot harder to find.

You mentioned the .270 WSM, you took the words right out of my mouth. This is a great round. I just got one and lovve it. These are accurate little cartriges since, like all WSMs they have the short fat powder column and no freebore. This is truely a light kicking rifle, and true magnum performance. It is right on the heels of the 270 weatherby in velocity(but alot more accurate), and beats the 270 win(one of the best all around rifles ever)by a couple hundred fps. It will cleanly kill any north american game(besides maybe big brown bears) and its flat and accurate, and can be shot well. It would be and is my choice for a "One gun for everything" rifle.

 

[308 nate]

Hi Dakor,
When I was 16 I had a 7mm rem mag. And it was a Great gun! And for hunting I could handle it just fine.But wanted to start shooting high powered silhouette and did not have the money to buy a different gun so my first silouette shoot I showed up with my ruger 77 7mm Rem mag. and 100 rounds of ammo.I had a cheap scope and it took me 40 rounds from the bench to get zeroed in at all ranges then 40 more to shoot the match.I weighed 150 lbs. and that was the worst mistake of my shooting career.My shoulder was just about bleeding and I developed a flinch that day that I'm still trying to get over 8 years later.I would say that a 300 winchester mag. would be O.K but if you like to shoot a lot I would recommend the .308 win. which is big enough in my mind for anything in North America and would not hesitate to take an elk at 500yds.In my mind shot placement is more important then freight train energy.My .308 has 1400 ft.lbs. of energy at 500 yds.And 1.40lb-sec. of momentum.Shoot your gun lots and learn it's trajectory and I don't think you could go wrong.
Just my advise take it for what it's worth.
308nate

 

[GEG]

For the money, buy the Remington 700 Sendero
stainless fluted in .300 Win Mag and have a
Vias muzzle brake installed with a cap so he can plink with the brake on and hunt with the cap on. From 150gr to 220gr factory ammo
can be found just about any where in the world. If you think the Sendero might be too heavy, drop back to Remington 700 stainless
steel BDL sporter synthetic model and put the brake on. Have the trigger adjusted as low as it can go and still be safe. Either one of the above choices can be gotten parts for easily on Ebay if needed. It just makes sense. GEG

[ 05-18-2004: Message edited by: GEG ]

 

[Guest]

Dakor,
I agree with Jon12, ammo for the wsm's is a lot easier to find than the 7 STW.

If they want to swing for a sendero, that gets my vote. Altohugh you would have to get the 300wm since they don't make them in wsm's. Or, look into the savages.
I think the weight of the sendero will help recoil.

Good luck.

 

[dakor]

Well I think at this point I would have him go with the 270 WSM I could always handload him a couple hundred rounds and ship or bring them up with me when I go. As for a Sendero the way he carrys mine around the yard it would be to heavy for him. I have looked at the Savage Weather Warrior 116FSS the only thing I hate about Savage is that cheap *** stock they put on them I am having all kinds of trouble with mine right now and I am looking for a wood stock for it. As for if he was going to shoot a Brown Bear he would be hunting with his dad and I and he could borrow my 300 win mag and I will use my dads 375 H&H. I like how guns are Recycled in our Family

It is sure nice on the budget! Thank you everyone for the help!! I just want to make sure it is done right I have seen the magnum flinch and had to deal with it myself so I know that is something you do not want to develope. Do you guys think I should keep letting him shoot the bigger stuff I have? I really do not want him to start flinching I do watch him from the side and he does look comfortable when he is shooting what do you think?

 

[Guest]

That savage stock is a piece of crap.

But......

I would go with the savage, then down the road you can restock.

 

[jon12]

If its fun for him and he can do it alright, dont quit lettin him shoot big stuff, just dont have him sit down and shoot it a whole bunch, and probably dont put him in his own rifle that he needs to shoot a whole bunch and get really comfy with and have it be a big rifle. Good choice with the 270 WSM, its the best of all words and really kicks light.

As far as rifles, you really cant go wrong with a model 70. You can get the WSMs in a Savage and there is a lot of firm savage believers on this site, but if his parents will pay for it, i dont believe that savage can honestly beat winchester on quality. Go for tried and true model 70 "the riflesmans rifle".

My 270 WSM is a model 70 coyote, its a good accurate rifle. Its exactly what i wanted, but its more heavy varmint config. like a sendero. If he wants something lighter, winchester and also browning offer a bunch of nice WSM rifles in any configureation he could want. Model 70 classic stainless synthetic or classic featherweight might be good choices, or browning A bolt II satinless stalker(w/ or w/o BOSS, just be careful with the BOSS models because its seems to me that take an already short 22" barrel and cut it down to put the BOSS on so the actual length of rifled barrel is really short which will give really low velocities and a whole lot of muzzle blast).

If you plan on hand loading him some rounds, im workin on loads right now and could help you w/ data. Data for that cartrige is plentiful and easy to find for free. Check out www.shortmags.org . I use 130s, but a 140 or 150 grain bullet would probably be the best choice for all around big game hunting.

Hope this helps.