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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
700 SPS Tactical vs. Model 10 Precision Carbine
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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 874534" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>I've owned exactly five Savage rifles in one form or another. Two of these are 99's chambered in .300. These two rifles simply reek with class. But they won't shoot with a good bolt gun in the same caliber. I don't loose thirty seconds of sleep over the issue. The others are 112's and one Mod. 12. One of the 112's was a single shot varmint rifle chambered in 22-250. It was a very early laminate stocked rifle that had the blued receiver and stainless steel barrel. The other is a magazine rifle, but otherwise similar to the chambering. The mod. 12 is a single shot 22-250 as well. The first 112BVSS would shoot mid two's all day long with near zero issues. That rifle did shoot several sub two tenth inch groups. But alas somebody wanted it worse than I, and I've always missed it. The other 112 shot mid to low three tenths inch groups all the time (five shot). After about 1300 rounds thru it I decided to give it a tune up ( groups were still around .44") on a whim. Replaced the trigger with a Rifle Basix, and added a speed lock kit. Then pulled the barrel and did a 3/8th's inch setback. Cut a new 22-250 chamber with a borrowed reamer. Then I pillar bedded it with home built steel pillars. Kept the OEM recoil lug, but ground it flat and parallel (took about .010"). Then rebedded the recoil lug area with Super Belzonia and steel bird shot. Did some minor skim bedding, and did a little bit of relieving in the stock. Nothing else was done. The rifle went right back to shooting .30" groups, and would drop into the mid twos on occasion. All this work took about five or six days including the cure time. The only thing done to the receiver was to lightly stone a couple burrs off the receiver face and where the bedding screws had pulled up a raised area. At the time, I didn't even check the receiver to see if it was square (it was later checked out, and was very square).</p><p> </p><p>Now I own several Remington's, but most are 541's. But I've owned several 700's over the years. Currently I own exactly one! Out of the box it was a 4.25" gun (.223) with the best hand loads I could assemble. I told the folks I bought it from, that this 700VS was a real dog. Well the gunsmith at my local dealer said let me look at it. He shot five inch groups! Called me up and asked me to allow the boys over in Fairland to try their hand with it (Ferris Pindell's buddies). About a week later they called me at the house to ask me how I managed to get it to shoot four and a quarter inch groups? I gave them my load data, and the managed to get close to what I was getting. About this time I read some stuff Bill Calfee wrote on judging a barrel, and we pulled it for an inspection. It was full of tight spots and loose spots. Tore up tight patches as well. It was rough looking to the eye as well. We then did a chamber cast, and liked to died when we got the plug. So we did another one with the same results. You didn't even have to measure it to see that the chamber was crooked, and the necked looked bent to the bore. I took them to work and checked them in a Shadowgraph. The chamber was cut .007" off center with the bore, and at roughly a seven degree angle! Looking at my bore charts and taking into fact what we already knew about the chamber, it looked like I could cut two inches off the big end, and maybe two inches off the other end. It turned out that I lost about six inches altogether, as it was worse than believed. Ferris loaned me a .223 N.M. chamber reamer, and we chambered the barrel. The receiver was all over the place, and I trued it as best I could. The bolt lugs were seating on a large burr that was about .06".</p><p>So the head space was never even close from the factory. I recut the threads in the receiver to match the barrel threads that were about .010" larger in the pitch diameter (they were that bad). Then dusted the area the lugs seat on in a Browne & Sharp #13. The actual bolt lugs looked pretty good! The aluminum bedding device that Remington used was a mess. Looked like the action was touching in three small points, plus it had an upwards warp in the forend. I spent a lot of time working on that piece of junk, and finally ended up recutting it with a light pass from a ball end mill in a Bridgeport. It was a few thousandths small, and I just lapped it to fit the receiver. The gutted the bar up front, and replaced it with Super Belzonia with steel shot in it. After it cured I made a couple passes to relieve it in the Bridgeport. The recoil lug area wasn't all that bad, but needed a little bit of work. I then pillar bedded the bedding block to be sure. I had to make my own screws! But it wasn't all that hard to do (why the oddball pitch?). Assembled the gun again, and Doug and I went shooting with Hornaday 55 grain Vamx factory loads. The first group was a 3/4" group, and Doug was happy (I wasn't). Every case had a bent rim from the extractor! Plus the ejector pin was leaving a mark. Turned out that the ejector pin was freezing up in the bore. That was an easy fix. The extractor was replaced with an M16 extractor, and the marks on the rim went away. Groups got a little better, but then started seeing major issues with the trigger. It was untouched from right out of the box, and was set at about 4.5lb. pull. Kind of rough. But the real issue showed it's ugly face when it fired when the safety was let off! Doug said it was me, and it did it with him. Called it a day and Doug took the rifle back to his shop for a look see. He went thru the trigger, and set it up on his gauge block. It had 3lb. of pull, and would freeze up during travel! Plus the safety issue was still there. But groups got a little better, and we're in the fives. He went thru it again, and the results were the same. Called Ferris to see what he thought, and Ferris asked to look it over. He said the trigger was junk and unsafe! Gave me a 1978 trigger that he'd gone thru, and did some work on the safety. Seemed to fix it, and the rifle is now shoot mid to low fours with an occasional mid three's group. Doug and I used to shoot every Tuesday morning at a local range, and that's when I started loading at the range. I saw 3270fps with a 55 grain Vmax, and looked like I lost about 75 fps after cutting the barrel back. While this was going on Doug pulled three 700's off his rack and all had bad triggers! He sent them back like I should have. The last time Doug and I shot on Tuesday he brought two shop guns. One was a Sako with the set trigger, and the other was Savage Mod. 12 BVSS. The Sako was in .308 and the Savage was a fast twist .223. It started shooting in the three's, and got into the two's (all five shot groups). I was not happy again!</p><p> </p><p>Now as much as I cussed that 700, it's my favorite hunting rifle! Not perfect, but I like it. The short barrel gives it a good off hand balance. Doesn't shoot off a rest as well as I'd like due to the forend shape. Killed quite a few coyotes with it, and most shots are off hand. I now wish it was a 1:10 twist gun. Had I to rechamber the barrel again, I'd have done it in .222 AI.</p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 874534, member: 25383"] I've owned exactly five Savage rifles in one form or another. Two of these are 99's chambered in .300. These two rifles simply reek with class. But they won't shoot with a good bolt gun in the same caliber. I don't loose thirty seconds of sleep over the issue. The others are 112's and one Mod. 12. One of the 112's was a single shot varmint rifle chambered in 22-250. It was a very early laminate stocked rifle that had the blued receiver and stainless steel barrel. The other is a magazine rifle, but otherwise similar to the chambering. The mod. 12 is a single shot 22-250 as well. The first 112BVSS would shoot mid two's all day long with near zero issues. That rifle did shoot several sub two tenth inch groups. But alas somebody wanted it worse than I, and I've always missed it. The other 112 shot mid to low three tenths inch groups all the time (five shot). After about 1300 rounds thru it I decided to give it a tune up ( groups were still around .44") on a whim. Replaced the trigger with a Rifle Basix, and added a speed lock kit. Then pulled the barrel and did a 3/8th's inch setback. Cut a new 22-250 chamber with a borrowed reamer. Then I pillar bedded it with home built steel pillars. Kept the OEM recoil lug, but ground it flat and parallel (took about .010"). Then rebedded the recoil lug area with Super Belzonia and steel bird shot. Did some minor skim bedding, and did a little bit of relieving in the stock. Nothing else was done. The rifle went right back to shooting .30" groups, and would drop into the mid twos on occasion. All this work took about five or six days including the cure time. The only thing done to the receiver was to lightly stone a couple burrs off the receiver face and where the bedding screws had pulled up a raised area. At the time, I didn't even check the receiver to see if it was square (it was later checked out, and was very square). Now I own several Remington's, but most are 541's. But I've owned several 700's over the years. Currently I own exactly one! Out of the box it was a 4.25" gun (.223) with the best hand loads I could assemble. I told the folks I bought it from, that this 700VS was a real dog. Well the gunsmith at my local dealer said let me look at it. He shot five inch groups! Called me up and asked me to allow the boys over in Fairland to try their hand with it (Ferris Pindell's buddies). About a week later they called me at the house to ask me how I managed to get it to shoot four and a quarter inch groups? I gave them my load data, and the managed to get close to what I was getting. About this time I read some stuff Bill Calfee wrote on judging a barrel, and we pulled it for an inspection. It was full of tight spots and loose spots. Tore up tight patches as well. It was rough looking to the eye as well. We then did a chamber cast, and liked to died when we got the plug. So we did another one with the same results. You didn't even have to measure it to see that the chamber was crooked, and the necked looked bent to the bore. I took them to work and checked them in a Shadowgraph. The chamber was cut .007" off center with the bore, and at roughly a seven degree angle! Looking at my bore charts and taking into fact what we already knew about the chamber, it looked like I could cut two inches off the big end, and maybe two inches off the other end. It turned out that I lost about six inches altogether, as it was worse than believed. Ferris loaned me a .223 N.M. chamber reamer, and we chambered the barrel. The receiver was all over the place, and I trued it as best I could. The bolt lugs were seating on a large burr that was about .06". So the head space was never even close from the factory. I recut the threads in the receiver to match the barrel threads that were about .010" larger in the pitch diameter (they were that bad). Then dusted the area the lugs seat on in a Browne & Sharp #13. The actual bolt lugs looked pretty good! The aluminum bedding device that Remington used was a mess. Looked like the action was touching in three small points, plus it had an upwards warp in the forend. I spent a lot of time working on that piece of junk, and finally ended up recutting it with a light pass from a ball end mill in a Bridgeport. It was a few thousandths small, and I just lapped it to fit the receiver. The gutted the bar up front, and replaced it with Super Belzonia with steel shot in it. After it cured I made a couple passes to relieve it in the Bridgeport. The recoil lug area wasn't all that bad, but needed a little bit of work. I then pillar bedded the bedding block to be sure. I had to make my own screws! But it wasn't all that hard to do (why the oddball pitch?). Assembled the gun again, and Doug and I went shooting with Hornaday 55 grain Vamx factory loads. The first group was a 3/4" group, and Doug was happy (I wasn't). Every case had a bent rim from the extractor! Plus the ejector pin was leaving a mark. Turned out that the ejector pin was freezing up in the bore. That was an easy fix. The extractor was replaced with an M16 extractor, and the marks on the rim went away. Groups got a little better, but then started seeing major issues with the trigger. It was untouched from right out of the box, and was set at about 4.5lb. pull. Kind of rough. But the real issue showed it's ugly face when it fired when the safety was let off! Doug said it was me, and it did it with him. Called it a day and Doug took the rifle back to his shop for a look see. He went thru the trigger, and set it up on his gauge block. It had 3lb. of pull, and would freeze up during travel! Plus the safety issue was still there. But groups got a little better, and we're in the fives. He went thru it again, and the results were the same. Called Ferris to see what he thought, and Ferris asked to look it over. He said the trigger was junk and unsafe! Gave me a 1978 trigger that he'd gone thru, and did some work on the safety. Seemed to fix it, and the rifle is now shoot mid to low fours with an occasional mid three's group. Doug and I used to shoot every Tuesday morning at a local range, and that's when I started loading at the range. I saw 3270fps with a 55 grain Vmax, and looked like I lost about 75 fps after cutting the barrel back. While this was going on Doug pulled three 700's off his rack and all had bad triggers! He sent them back like I should have. The last time Doug and I shot on Tuesday he brought two shop guns. One was a Sako with the set trigger, and the other was Savage Mod. 12 BVSS. The Sako was in .308 and the Savage was a fast twist .223. It started shooting in the three's, and got into the two's (all five shot groups). I was not happy again! Now as much as I cussed that 700, it's my favorite hunting rifle! Not perfect, but I like it. The short barrel gives it a good off hand balance. Doesn't shoot off a rest as well as I'd like due to the forend shape. Killed quite a few coyotes with it, and most shots are off hand. I now wish it was a 1:10 twist gun. Had I to rechamber the barrel again, I'd have done it in .222 AI. gary [/QUOTE]
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700 SPS Tactical vs. Model 10 Precision Carbine
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