HoytFlinger
Well-Known Member
Is a custom build 338-378 Wby as accurate as a custom 338 Lapua or Edge?
338-378 Wby accuracy
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Broz
Well-Known Member
Accuracy is more times built into the rifle and ammo than in the caliber. Any of the ones you mentioned can be very accurate, if put together right and a good load worked up for them with the right bullet.
Jeff
Jeff
HoytFlinger
Well-Known Member
I'm going to have GAP build the rifle once I get the rest of the parts. So the build should be right. I was just wondering if all were equal concerning build and ammo quality would the big Wby be as accurate.
Broz
Well-Known Member
HoytFlinger
Well-Known Member
Thanks. My barrel is an Obermeyer AMU 9.5 twist. Action is Badger M2008. Should make quite a nice build.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
The 338-378 wby was a very popular extreme range elk cartridge in the west and particularly Colorado during the 70's and 80's recording 1 mile kills. I knew several guys that recorded 1 mile elk kills during that time with the 338-378 wby and the other popular one the 338-416 Rigby improved which held a little more powder and got a few extra fps. The popularity of it during that time influenced wby to introduce it into their line of cartridges during the late 90's.
I collected seven of them over that time period when it was a wildcat. It will still outperform just about everything out there in that class rifle.
I collected seven of them over that time period when it was a wildcat. It will still outperform just about everything out there in that class rifle.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
If built properly on a quality receiver, barrel and stock, it should certainly be just as accurate as these other chamberings. The weakest link in the 338-378 Wby is the Wby MkV receiver. Around 10-15% of these simply will not produce 1/2 moa consistancy no matter what you do with them machining wise. This is why I stopped working on them many years ago. That compared to a Rem 700 or custom receiver that I have yet to get one that would not produce 1/2 moa consistancy.
Many people get hung up on a case designs inherent accuracy. That may be true on small capacity 100 and 200 yard BR chamberings. For long range precision using large capacity chamberings and heavy bullets the rifle quality and specs are MUCH more important then the chambering choice.
Throat design is a big factor as well. IF your looking for extreme precision with a 338-378 Wby, you would be wise to go with a shorter, tight speced accuracy throat design instead of the traditional Wby freebore. Freebore is great for velocity, generally not the best for accuracy, at least not in the form Wby does their freebore.
The rifles I have built in 338-378 shot extremely well and were easy to get to shoot 1/2 moa consistancy but they also have accuracy throats and factory ammo would not be safe to shoot in them because factory ammo is designed to be used with the excessive freebore of factory rifles. That said, most that have a full custom rifle built do not generally shoot factory ammo. If a customer does want to shoot factory ammo, I cut the chambers with standard freebore but cut them to a diameter only 1/2 thou over bullet dameter.
In all honesty however, if your choosing a precision chambering, I would not recommend the 338-378 for two reasons, brass is EXTREMELY expensive but worse yet, its generally very soft and will not handle high pressure loading with much case life. This is why chamberings like the 338 Lapua Improved and my 338 Allen Xpress will match the much larger capacity 338-378 Wby in performance and do so with around 8 grains less powder, because the 338 Lapua parent case will support much more chamber pressure and still offer longer case life. Its also much less costly then the Wby brass.
Many people get hung up on a case designs inherent accuracy. That may be true on small capacity 100 and 200 yard BR chamberings. For long range precision using large capacity chamberings and heavy bullets the rifle quality and specs are MUCH more important then the chambering choice.
Throat design is a big factor as well. IF your looking for extreme precision with a 338-378 Wby, you would be wise to go with a shorter, tight speced accuracy throat design instead of the traditional Wby freebore. Freebore is great for velocity, generally not the best for accuracy, at least not in the form Wby does their freebore.
The rifles I have built in 338-378 shot extremely well and were easy to get to shoot 1/2 moa consistancy but they also have accuracy throats and factory ammo would not be safe to shoot in them because factory ammo is designed to be used with the excessive freebore of factory rifles. That said, most that have a full custom rifle built do not generally shoot factory ammo. If a customer does want to shoot factory ammo, I cut the chambers with standard freebore but cut them to a diameter only 1/2 thou over bullet dameter.
In all honesty however, if your choosing a precision chambering, I would not recommend the 338-378 for two reasons, brass is EXTREMELY expensive but worse yet, its generally very soft and will not handle high pressure loading with much case life. This is why chamberings like the 338 Lapua Improved and my 338 Allen Xpress will match the much larger capacity 338-378 Wby in performance and do so with around 8 grains less powder, because the 338 Lapua parent case will support much more chamber pressure and still offer longer case life. Its also much less costly then the Wby brass.
HoytFlinger
Well-Known Member
Kirby,
What velocities do you get with the accuracy throats you speak of with say 300 Bergers?
What velocities do you get with the accuracy throats you speak of with say 300 Bergers?
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
On average, out of a 30" barrel length, around 3000 fps. You can get higher then this but brass life drops off significantly. This is the beauty of the 338 Lapua over the big Wby. The Improved Lapua and my 338 AX will get the same 3000 fps with much better brass life.
I have 338-378 Norma brass that's been loaded 5 times with no lose pockets. I full length resize and load 285 grn bullets on the high end. I think the brass gets a bad wrap with those that have not used it a lot or possibly really push it. I can't ask for much more tan 6 loads although we will see how any more I get. As for accuracy, the Shilen tube I use sends it. Hard to beat this cartridge all around. Nobody has really made significant improvements in the wildcats.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The Norma brass is SOFT. IF you load it to standard book loads it will last fine. If you match factory specs, you will loose primer pockets much more quickly. And I assure you I have burned up many thousand rounds of Norma 338-378 Wby brass as we used to shoot the 338 Kahn exclusively for our long range shooting which is simply a 338-378 Wby with a 35 degree conventional shoulder instead of the double radiused shoulder.
We were shooting my Heavy V-Block rifles, one with 32" barrel length, the other with 34" barrel length. My rifle had the shortest barrel and it would get 3050 fps with the 300 gr SMK with a long OAL of 4.100" used as a single shot.
My brothers rifle with the longer barrel and same OAL would push 3100 fps easy enough but thats about it. At this level we were seeing 5-6 firings per case and generally the last couple were on very loose primers.
By comparision, my 338 Allen Xpress will hit 3000 fps with a 30" barrel length with the same bullet and I have NEVER loosened a primer pocket on the 338 Lapua parent case with any of my wildcat loads. That includes up to and well over 10 firings per case.
Last I checked the Wby boxed brass was running around $450 shipped to the customer per 100 brass. The Norma brass was running around $320 with shipping per 100. So you pay this much and get 5-6 firings at best per case.
You can order 100 338 Lapua brass for around $275 per 100 and get +10 firings per case with same level of performance and AT LEAST as good if not better case to case consistancy, there is no real decision here, plus you do not have the worthless belt to worry about.
When I was designing all of my Allen Xpress and Allen Magnum wildcats I started with the Wby case and necked it down to 7mm and modified it to 30, 338 and 375 cal and was not impressed with the results. Then I switched to the 338 Lapua and could not have been happier. Matched the performance of the much larger Wby case but did so with less powder and in a much shorter OAL which made them much more practical for a wider range of receivers to be use in.
In the end, the 338-378 wby case, no matter if its made by Norma or sold under the Wby name is not a strong case compared to what else is out there. And anyone that has used it alot and pushed it to top pressures knows this to be true.
No flame intended toward you, just the simple fact of life, its not very strong brass compared to others out there and vastly over priced for what you get in the end. A case that large in capacity should add 100 fps over what even the 338 Lapua Improved should be able to produce and it does not even come close to that. Barely matches the Lapua Improved and my AX.
HoytFlinger
Well-Known Member
Can one order a 338 AX reamer from PT&G or are they proprietary?
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Proprietary at this time.
This is what is truly great about this country. We can always improve or enhance marketing on anothers product which leads to progress and more products. Ford ups Chevy and so on, we all get improved products. We have so many choices it's incredible. Ever go to market in Africa and buy Milk? They have milk. How many brand/types do we have over 30 my last trip. I am a fan of the 338-378, brass life is more than acceptable, for the price over the life of a barel I am probably on par with buying all the proprietary dies, tools etc. But as someone said you alway pay for the most for that last margin of performance or wait isn't the Weatherby slightly better on the performance end? Hmmm, that's what the marketeers are for.
