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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
300 Win vs 300 RUM vs 30-378 Weatherby
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 848518" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>The funny thing about reloading manuals is that they rarely list the best powders for a given chambering, WHY is that, not sure but the loads you list are FAR from the best for each chambering. I will admit that what you list for the 300 Wby is about as good as you can get. 3100 fps with a 190 gr bullet in the Wby is a pretty good load. I would not use H4831, there are much better powders to use to get this level of velocity but that is about max.</p><p> </p><p>The 300 RUM in a 26" barrel length with a good load of Retumbo will easily break 3200 fps with a 210 gr Berger or SMK, whereas the Wby will get you around 3K or a bit over but not much.</p><p> </p><p>You have made clear my point on the 30-378 as it needs a load of powder to get the velocity it does but again, your choosing the worst powders to make your point more extreme. There are many loads in the 300 Wby using 8700 that would easily add 10 grains to the powder charged use to get the same velocity you list. Your using loads to prove your point.</p><p> </p><p>As far as your gun barer comment, adding 4" to barrel length would add around 8 oz of weight to the rifle. THAT IS A LOAD that would break most healthy mature male hunters I am sure.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p><p> </p><p>The 300 Wby has a terrible shoulder design for accurate and consistant shoulder control, that is why they invented the Ackely and the Jarrett, to correct the weakness of the double radius shoulder design.</p><p> </p><p>You say anything over the Wby is severely overbore, hardly. Overbore depends on the bullet weight, barrel length, bore diameter and more specifically, POWDER used in the combo. We have new powders today that make these larger capacities very practical. If we were talking back in the 1970 or even 80s, I would agree, your your opinion these days is a bit outdated with the new powders we have to use. In fact the 300 RUM is quite efficient if loaded correctly. IF your hung up on getting the very most FPS with the very least grains of powder, yes, go with the WSM. If you want to drive a heavy bullet to high velocity for the best down range ballistic and terminal performance, there is no question which is better.</p><p> </p><p>Your opinion on short barrel life because of shoulder and neck design is simply something that some gun rag writer writes about. I have tested this to the extreme in my wildcat chamberings and it makes VERY LITTLE Difference. The determining factors that effect barrel life in these large capacity chamberings is simply keeping the barrel clean and keeping it cool. The barrel life of any rifle is much more dependant on how the rifle is shot and cared for, FAR more then what the rifle is chambered in. I had a 300 RUM Rem 700, one of the first to come to Montana. Used it for a load of years, put over 1000 rounds down the barrel. Restocked it and gave it to my brother in law and he has put 500 more through it and its still shooting the 200 gr Accubonds at 3240 fps into sub 3/4 moa groups, about what it did when it was new for accuracy. </p><p> </p><p>Neck length and barrel life have very little in common. Keeping your barrel cool and clean is the key, nothing more, nothing less. Again, back in the day when all there was were chrome moly steel barrel, your argument may have had some merit but with todays fine stainless steel barrels, not so much.</p><p> </p><p>Again, I go back to my original argument, the 300 RUM is a better case design, it will get you a solid 200 fps more velocity then the 300 Wby when loaded to same chamber pressures or better yet it will drive a 20 grain heavier bullet with much higher BC value to the same velocity as the Wby. Brass will be available for ever for the 300 RUM as its very well estabilished and for good reason.</p><p> </p><p>Your argument is more at the muzzle then anything, my point of view is being able to drive a heavy, longer, higher BC bullet to higher velocity so that the bullet does more work down range with less stress on the case. True you can red line the Wby to get the velocity you list or you can use very comfortable pressures in a much better case design and still get better barrel life.</p><p> </p><p>If you take care of both, the 300 RUM will get you just as long of a barrel life as the 300 Wby, especially in a factory rifle, WHY, simply because the Wby will have a very long freebore which will erode much more quickly. When it does, velocity will drop off. The 300 RUM will come with a shorter throat that will be better for accuracy.</p><p> </p><p>You speak of a short throated 300 Wby, if you do that, you drop 100 fps easily off the listed velocities for that chambering....... Not only that but shooting factory ammo in a short throated rifle would be dangerous because pressures would spike very high.</p><p> </p><p>All issues that are NON ISSUES with the RUM.</p><p> </p><p>Back in the 70s and 80s the 300 Wby was near the top of the performance ladder, today its average at best, not opinion, that is simply fact. A great round but there is so much more to be had with no real disadvantages.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 848518, member: 10"] The funny thing about reloading manuals is that they rarely list the best powders for a given chambering, WHY is that, not sure but the loads you list are FAR from the best for each chambering. I will admit that what you list for the 300 Wby is about as good as you can get. 3100 fps with a 190 gr bullet in the Wby is a pretty good load. I would not use H4831, there are much better powders to use to get this level of velocity but that is about max. The 300 RUM in a 26" barrel length with a good load of Retumbo will easily break 3200 fps with a 210 gr Berger or SMK, whereas the Wby will get you around 3K or a bit over but not much. You have made clear my point on the 30-378 as it needs a load of powder to get the velocity it does but again, your choosing the worst powders to make your point more extreme. There are many loads in the 300 Wby using 8700 that would easily add 10 grains to the powder charged use to get the same velocity you list. Your using loads to prove your point. As far as your gun barer comment, adding 4" to barrel length would add around 8 oz of weight to the rifle. THAT IS A LOAD that would break most healthy mature male hunters I am sure.:rolleyes: The 300 Wby has a terrible shoulder design for accurate and consistant shoulder control, that is why they invented the Ackely and the Jarrett, to correct the weakness of the double radius shoulder design. You say anything over the Wby is severely overbore, hardly. Overbore depends on the bullet weight, barrel length, bore diameter and more specifically, POWDER used in the combo. We have new powders today that make these larger capacities very practical. If we were talking back in the 1970 or even 80s, I would agree, your your opinion these days is a bit outdated with the new powders we have to use. In fact the 300 RUM is quite efficient if loaded correctly. IF your hung up on getting the very most FPS with the very least grains of powder, yes, go with the WSM. If you want to drive a heavy bullet to high velocity for the best down range ballistic and terminal performance, there is no question which is better. Your opinion on short barrel life because of shoulder and neck design is simply something that some gun rag writer writes about. I have tested this to the extreme in my wildcat chamberings and it makes VERY LITTLE Difference. The determining factors that effect barrel life in these large capacity chamberings is simply keeping the barrel clean and keeping it cool. The barrel life of any rifle is much more dependant on how the rifle is shot and cared for, FAR more then what the rifle is chambered in. I had a 300 RUM Rem 700, one of the first to come to Montana. Used it for a load of years, put over 1000 rounds down the barrel. Restocked it and gave it to my brother in law and he has put 500 more through it and its still shooting the 200 gr Accubonds at 3240 fps into sub 3/4 moa groups, about what it did when it was new for accuracy. Neck length and barrel life have very little in common. Keeping your barrel cool and clean is the key, nothing more, nothing less. Again, back in the day when all there was were chrome moly steel barrel, your argument may have had some merit but with todays fine stainless steel barrels, not so much. Again, I go back to my original argument, the 300 RUM is a better case design, it will get you a solid 200 fps more velocity then the 300 Wby when loaded to same chamber pressures or better yet it will drive a 20 grain heavier bullet with much higher BC value to the same velocity as the Wby. Brass will be available for ever for the 300 RUM as its very well estabilished and for good reason. Your argument is more at the muzzle then anything, my point of view is being able to drive a heavy, longer, higher BC bullet to higher velocity so that the bullet does more work down range with less stress on the case. True you can red line the Wby to get the velocity you list or you can use very comfortable pressures in a much better case design and still get better barrel life. If you take care of both, the 300 RUM will get you just as long of a barrel life as the 300 Wby, especially in a factory rifle, WHY, simply because the Wby will have a very long freebore which will erode much more quickly. When it does, velocity will drop off. The 300 RUM will come with a shorter throat that will be better for accuracy. You speak of a short throated 300 Wby, if you do that, you drop 100 fps easily off the listed velocities for that chambering....... Not only that but shooting factory ammo in a short throated rifle would be dangerous because pressures would spike very high. All issues that are NON ISSUES with the RUM. Back in the 70s and 80s the 300 Wby was near the top of the performance ladder, today its average at best, not opinion, that is simply fact. A great round but there is so much more to be had with no real disadvantages. [/QUOTE]
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