Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
Articles
Latest reviews
Author list
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Hunting
Long Range Hunting & Shooting
300 Win MAG to the brink?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Pdvdh" data-source="post: 266797" data-attributes="member: 4191"><p>Some do it better than others. High BC bullets launched at the higher velocities are top dogs. The ones that will reach way out there quite handily are along the lines of the 338 Allen Mag, the 7mm Allen Mag, the 300 RUM, 7mm RUM. A large factor in maintaining downrange velocity is the elevation (station pressure) the shots are taken at. Specifically, the 338 Edge drops to 1700 fps with the 300 SMK at ~ 1000 yds near sea level. But at 4000-5000 ft the same bullet in the 338 Edge gets out to ~1200 yds before dropping to 1700 fps impact velocity. How many stories do you read on this forum where game are killed at 1200+ yds. Not many. At sea level - basically none. Most the ultra-long big game kills are at higher elevations where the velocity is maintained a little better due to less dense air at those altitudes.</p><p></p><p>Another consideration is that when you go to larger calibers, you can still get some tissue damage with larger diameter bullets even though they may not expand dramatically. I believe most expanding bullet manufacturers identify 1700-1800 fps as their advertised recommended minimum expansion velocity. I personally believe that their recommendations are on the conservative side, and that the majority of their bullets will expand (at least minimally) at somewhat lower velocity. Certainly a bullet that hits bone in the front shoulders is likely to expand at substantially lower velocity. I've never shot a game animal past 1000 yds yet, so don't let me lead you to believe I'm the expert at those extreme ranges. But I've seen a few animals hit at closer ranges with bullets that didn't expand and it wasn't pretty. That's why I get uncomfortable stretching my ranges out to where my remaining impact velocity drops below 1600-1700 fps.</p><p></p><p>A couple examples I've witnessed first hand. I shot a dall sheep ~15 years ago at a distance of 12-13 yds with a 280 RCBS Improved, using a 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Muzzle Velocity was about 2950 fps. The ram was broadside and I hit it just behind the front legs at mid-height. They ram jumped and switched positions 180 degrees. He looked across the river bottom at some sheep on the opposing hill-side. When he did I could see the blood spot start to form on the exiting side of his rib-cage. I finally stood up and when he saw me he bolted down the hill ~100-125 yds and stopped. He evenually lay down there. 25 minutes later he was weakening but still alive. So I walked down to him and when I got about 10 yds away he jumped up and took off again, this time running awkwardly. I shot him again with the same bullet and load from about 15-20 yds quartering into the boiler room. This bullet expanded and flattened the ram like a pile-driver. I've observed similar consequences with a black bear where a Nosler Ballistic tip out of a 338 Win Mag full-metal-jacketed through the bear at a distance of ~220 yds without expanding. We recovered that bear but only after shooting it on the move a couple more times as he scrambled to reach cover.</p><p></p><p>I don't have the cure-all solution you may have been seeking. But I know I want my bullets to expand when they hit the game animal. And I know the slower the impact velocity, the more likely I am to be disappointed with the results, and myself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pdvdh, post: 266797, member: 4191"] Some do it better than others. High BC bullets launched at the higher velocities are top dogs. The ones that will reach way out there quite handily are along the lines of the 338 Allen Mag, the 7mm Allen Mag, the 300 RUM, 7mm RUM. A large factor in maintaining downrange velocity is the elevation (station pressure) the shots are taken at. Specifically, the 338 Edge drops to 1700 fps with the 300 SMK at ~ 1000 yds near sea level. But at 4000-5000 ft the same bullet in the 338 Edge gets out to ~1200 yds before dropping to 1700 fps impact velocity. How many stories do you read on this forum where game are killed at 1200+ yds. Not many. At sea level - basically none. Most the ultra-long big game kills are at higher elevations where the velocity is maintained a little better due to less dense air at those altitudes. Another consideration is that when you go to larger calibers, you can still get some tissue damage with larger diameter bullets even though they may not expand dramatically. I believe most expanding bullet manufacturers identify 1700-1800 fps as their advertised recommended minimum expansion velocity. I personally believe that their recommendations are on the conservative side, and that the majority of their bullets will expand (at least minimally) at somewhat lower velocity. Certainly a bullet that hits bone in the front shoulders is likely to expand at substantially lower velocity. I've never shot a game animal past 1000 yds yet, so don't let me lead you to believe I'm the expert at those extreme ranges. But I've seen a few animals hit at closer ranges with bullets that didn't expand and it wasn't pretty. That's why I get uncomfortable stretching my ranges out to where my remaining impact velocity drops below 1600-1700 fps. A couple examples I've witnessed first hand. I shot a dall sheep ~15 years ago at a distance of 12-13 yds with a 280 RCBS Improved, using a 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Muzzle Velocity was about 2950 fps. The ram was broadside and I hit it just behind the front legs at mid-height. They ram jumped and switched positions 180 degrees. He looked across the river bottom at some sheep on the opposing hill-side. When he did I could see the blood spot start to form on the exiting side of his rib-cage. I finally stood up and when he saw me he bolted down the hill ~100-125 yds and stopped. He evenually lay down there. 25 minutes later he was weakening but still alive. So I walked down to him and when I got about 10 yds away he jumped up and took off again, this time running awkwardly. I shot him again with the same bullet and load from about 15-20 yds quartering into the boiler room. This bullet expanded and flattened the ram like a pile-driver. I've observed similar consequences with a black bear where a Nosler Ballistic tip out of a 338 Win Mag full-metal-jacketed through the bear at a distance of ~220 yds without expanding. We recovered that bear but only after shooting it on the move a couple more times as he scrambled to reach cover. I don't have the cure-all solution you may have been seeking. But I know I want my bullets to expand when they hit the game animal. And I know the slower the impact velocity, the more likely I am to be disappointed with the results, and myself. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Hunting
Long Range Hunting & Shooting
300 Win MAG to the brink?
Top