300 or 338 Win

[idcwby]

Got a buddy that wants to be able to shoot elk at a 1000. He's got factory Ruger's in 300 and 338 Win Mag, I'm assuming both have 24" barrels, he would like to use one of them. I'm thinking the 300 would be better because there is more bullet selection to be able to do it. I wasn't sure if the 338 could push a good enough bc bullet fast enough to have the required retained velocity at 1000. What does everyone think? Anything I'm overlooking?

 

[Bret GRAVELINE Graveline]

I've been hunting with the 338 since 75 in my opinion anything you can with the 300 the 338 will do it better, if you have any doubts id punch the 338 out 338 ultra

 

[MagnumManiac]

The 338WM with a high BC bullet that it can stabilise will run out of steam for ethical LR hunting at the 800 mark.
If you want a 338 to go to 1000, you need an Edge or larger.
The 300WM with a 230g will go well beyond 1000, so the choice is fairly obvious.
Personally, I have used both well passed 1000, but it is a very niche rifle/scope set-up. Not something a factory Ruger is set ip for.

Cheers.

 

[Wolf76]

You have a couple things going on in this thread. Cartridge capability and setup capability.

338 wm doesn't have the case capacity to push heavier bullets that far at/or above minimum performance thresholds.
The 300 can with a stout load and a 215 berger.

Many factory guns don't maintain enough accuracy to shoot that distance in good conscience.

 

[Reelamin]

Got a buddy that wants to be able to shoot elk at a 1000. He's got factory Ruger's in 300 and 338 Win Mag, I'm assuming both have 24" barrels, he would like to use one of them. I'm thinking the 300 would be better because there is more bullet selection to be able to do it. I wasn't sure if the 338 could push a good enough bc bullet fast enough to have the required retained velocity at 1000. What does everyone think? Anything I'm overlooking?

It is what ever you set your on target expectations to be. Both calibers are more than capable of 1000 yards to kill a deer (easy) and even an elk size animal (takes a lot more). He just has to decide what he is willing to accept and make his decision. Lots of data and ballistic programs to give data to you. My standard is I want 17-1800 fps on target with a hunting bullet not a target or re-labeled target bullet. The high BC bullets will add 1-200 yards. I don't judge any guns capabilities until I know how accurate it is and how fast it shoots. Running average numbers with hot reloads and semi sleek bullet (Accubond) for me I would expect the 338WM in a 24" to be around 800yd max range. The 300WM is pretty much the same and maybe 100yd farther. I had to go to big powder burners to get my velocity to 1000 and farther. Now, just to mess with you many of the 6.5 Suck it Moor man bun crowd believes its a death ray on elk well past 1000 yards.

 

[idcwby]

Playing with ballistics, I keep coming to the same conclusion that the 338 hits it's limit at about 800 yards, but it's possible to get the 300 to 1000. I know this is all dependent on what the rifle can do. I've told him he needs to buy a different gun for this, but doesn't have the money to spend on one.
For the 338, the 230gr ELDX looks like it could make it a 1000 yard gun. Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[Reelamin]

Playing with ballistics, I keep coming to the same conclusion that the 338 hits it's limit at about 800 yards, but it's possible to get the 300 to 1000. I know this is all dependent on what the rifle can do. I've told him he needs to buy a different gun for this, but doesn't have the money to spend on one.
For the 338, the 230gr ELDX looks like it could make it a 1000 yard gun. Anyone have any experience with it?

I need a little more help from you. You say the 338 hits it's limit at 800, but its possible to get the 300 to 1000. What are the "limits" you are referring to? Will help others give more accurate input and their experiences. Total respect for your buddy making what he has work for his needs and not just throwing money at it first.

 

[idcwby]

I need a little more help from you. You say the 338 hits it's limit at 800, but its possible to get the 300 to 1000. What are the "limits" you are referring to? Will help others give more accurate input and their experiences. Total respect for your buddy making what he has work for his needs and not just throwing money at it first.

Looking at min expansion velocity, I know it varies from bullet to bullet and personal preference. As a starting point I use the manufacture min expansion velocity to get an idea if the bullet will perform at the distance.

 

[Reelamin]

Looking at min expansion velocity, I know it varies from bullet to bullet and personal preference. As a starting point I use the manufacture min expansion velocity to get an idea if the bullet will perform at the distance.

Thanks it helps a little. A 265 ABLR at 2500fps goes well past 1100 yards and still meets your criteria. I think that is safe velocity number for some reloaded ammo.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Realistically, the 338WM is limited by velocity, it's limitation therefore is hitting power.
The highest BC bullet it can push to reach 1000 and still have the punch for Elk is the 265g ABLR.
Now, I have used these in both the 338WM, 338Edge and my own 338-416 Rigby Improved cartridge.
They work right down to the 1300fps threshold where expansion is at it's lowest.
In my 338-416 Rigby Improved, all bullets are HBN coated which gives me around 100fps more velocity and the ABLR inside 600 was truly a bomb and destroyed shoulders to bloodshot mush.
Now, in the 338WM, it works a treat and is still enough for Elk to 1000, but not much passed that and you need to push them as fast as you can. A 24" barrel is gonna be down a bit, but still doable.

Cheers.

 

[idcwby]

Thanks it helps a little. A 265 ABLR at 2500fps goes well past 1100 yards and still meets your criteria. I think that is safe velocity number for some reloaded ammo.

Thanks. Didn't even consider that bullet because of its weight. Appreciate all the input.

 

[idcwby]

Realistically, the 338WM is limited by velocity, it's limitation therefore is hitting power.
The highest BC bullet it can push to reach 1000 and still have the punch for Elk is the 265g ABLR.
Now, I have used these in both the 338WM, 338Edge and my own 338-416 Rigby Improved cartridge.
They work right down to the 1300fps threshold where expansion is at it's lowest.
In my 338-416 Rigby Improved, all bullets are HBN coated which gives me around 100fps more velocity and the ABLR inside 600 was truly a bomb and destroyed shoulders to bloodshot mush.
Now, in the 338WM, it works a treat and is still enough for Elk to 1000, but not much passed that and you need to push them as fast as you can. A 24" barrel is gonna be down a bit, but still doable.

Cheers.

That's what I'm figure it out with velocity for this cartridge. I've never really considered it much of a cartridge after owning a 300 RUM. Do like the learning about other cartridges though.